PLAN Carrier Strike Group and Airwing

Re: Anti-Carrier Trump Card

Ahem so that's a bit like the wargame where the US army lost the Vietnam

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I don't know how this subject popped into the conversation.

Quite frequently a lot of the member post items out of lack of knowledge. I have no idea of what you may have learned..so....

Let me set the record straight.

Unfortunatley history paints the Vietnam war as a defeat for the US Military. Yes the United States was defeated....However
the US Armed Forces was not defeated in Vietnam. It was the policy of the US government reguarding Vietnam that was defeated.

All major US combatant forces had been removed from Vietnam long before the South fell. At no time did the US forces surrender during any major battle with the N. Vietnmese forces. The South fell on April 29,1975. I know. I was there. I was on board the USS Hancock CVA-19.

On January 27, 1973 a peace agreement was signed between the US, S. Veitnamese and N.Vietnamese forces was signed. And all US combat forces widthdrew from S.Vietnam in short order. Only advisors, CIA types and USMC embasy guards remained. There is a link below about the peace agreement. The text is rather long so I did not post. As soon as the US forces had left S.Vietnam the North began it's illeagal incursions into the south in complete violation of the Peace agreement. The US government decided not to assist the S. Vietnamese government any longer because of opposition to the war in the US.

Re: My trip to the US Navy Reserve Fleet in Bremerton, WA

bd popeye said:

Sigh...I've never had so much trouble posting in a forum..I've lost probaly 50+ post here. Then half the time the icons don't work for me?? Like right now the only thing I can do is type a post. I think it's a server problem.

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i know what you mean, sometimes when i click the icons it doesn't appear or when i post something it just freezes there

Re: What will the 1st PLAN Carrier Battle Group (CBG) look like?

i think kiev and minsk are far more useful as helo carring heavy missle cruisers than a full carrier. unlike gorkie, they wernt designed to be reffited any ways. as helo crusers, they could weild immense firepower. it would also be easier to refit.

Re: What will the 1st PLAN Carrier Battle Group (CBG) look like?

MIGleader said:

they could weild immense firepower. it would also be easier to refit.

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I believe the most versatiel, most powerful, and strongest naval power projection instrument (short of an SSBN) is an aircraft carrier. Given the range of the aircraft (with refueling potential) and their versatile loadouts, they are more flexible and more powerful in my opinion.

But that is just my opinion.

Re: Anti-Carrier Trump Card

bd popeye said:

On January 27, 1973 a peace agreement was signed between the US, S. Veitnamese and N.Vietnamese forces was signed. And all US combat forces widthdrew from S.Vietnam in short order.

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Well said popeye. US military forces, ground, naval, and air, forced the North Vietnamese to the negotiating table and the peace was made due to what the US military had accomplished. NVA forces were defeated in the South, the VC had ceased to be a major player after Tet, and the North was being bombed into rubble.

After the peace deal was made and we were leaving, the NVA took two years to resupply and get back in order and then they invaded and defeated the S. Vietnamese. The fact that we were a signator to that peace treaty and did little appreciable militarily to stop it was something that makred us amongst other free nations in the area for many years thereafter...and lingers to this day.

But, as you say, the US military did not suffer a military defeat there at all. As you say, it was our political policy and leadership that lost.

Re: My trip to the US Navy Reserve Fleet in Bremerton, WA

bd popeye said:

Personally I think the US will move the entire CVN battle group to Guam if not allowed to place a CVN in Japan. The USN also presently plans on stationing a second carrier in Guam or Hawaii.

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I agree. Perhpas the JFK will buy some time for negotiations with the Japanese...Iguess we will wait and see.

But having two forward deployed carrier battle groups in the western Pacific will be a good thing, IMHO, to keep the balance and the peace.

BTW, sorry about your lost posts. I always enjoy you comments and the experience they represent.

Re: Anti-Carrier Trump Card

Jeff Head said:

Well said popeye. US military forces, ground, naval, and air, forced the North Vietnamese to the negotiating table and the peace was made due to what the US military had accomplished. NVA forces were defeated in the South, the VC had ceased to be a major player after Tet, and the North was being bombed into rubble.

After the peace deal was made and we were leaving, the NVA took two years to resupply and get back in order and then they invaded and defeated the S. Vietnamese. The fact that we were a signator to that peace treaty and did little appreciable militarily to stop it was something that makred us amongst other free nations in the area for many years thereafter...and lingers to this day.

But, as you say, the US military did not suffer a military defeat there at all. As you say, it was our political policy and leadership that lost.

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Thank you Jeff. I once some years ago got booted out of a history class at San Diego City college because I dare mentioned these facts about the Vietnam war in class. The Class was of course teaching some revisionist history of the post WW 2 years.. The longer I was there the more upset I became...So one day i just lashed out..Then was promptly booted out. My behavior was loud but not unexcusable....

A couple of years ago I spoke to some kids at Pt Loma HS in San Diego as a Vietnam vet about this very subject. On that occasion I was allowed to set the record straight.

Re: Anti-Carrier Trump Card

oh my. i didn't know the u.s had such oppresionist schools. but i guess most americans will not hear their country's bad side only good. the us is not so different from japan after all. things like jap internment, indian internment, the civil rights age, vietnam just seem to fade away into history when the government talks about a "great, free america"

Re: What will the 1st PLAN Carrier Battle Group (CBG) look like?

of course china will have a carrier, just not converted from old junk like minsk and kiev. a european style light carrier to aid varyag would be good.

Re: Anti-Carrier Trump Card

bd popeye said:

Thank you Jeff. I once some years ago got booted out of a history class at San Diego City college because I dare mentioned these facts about the Vietnam war in class. The Class was of course teaching some revisionist history of the post WW 2 years.. The longer I was there the more upset I became...So one day i just lashed out..Then was promptly booted out. My behavior was loud but not unexcusable....

A couple of years ago I spoke to some kids at Pt Loma HS in San Diego as a Vietnam vet about this very subject. On that occasion I was allowed to set the record straight.

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yeah, I agree. I'd call it a draw, although that's still quite an accomplishment for the Vietnamese army.