PLAN Carrier Strike Group and Airwing

adeptitus

Captain
VIP Professional
Re: Anti-Carrier Trump Card

bd popeye said:
Thank you Jeff. I once some years ago got booted out of a history class at San Diego City college because I dare mentioned these facts about the Vietnam war in class. The Class was of course teaching some revisionist history of the post WW 2 years.. The longer I was there the more upset I became...So one day i just lashed out..Then was promptly booted out. My behavior was loud but not unexcusable....
A couple of years ago I spoke to some kids at Pt Loma HS in San Diego as a Vietnam vet about this very subject. On that occasion I was allowed to set the record straight.

That's the great liberal invasion of public education for ya. Used to date a girl who was quite normal before going to college, then after being brainwashed by her left-wing liberal professors at school, she graduated to advocating banning of private property ownership and people should rent from the government.

The Vietnam War needs to be evaluated from the respective time period. At the time the communists were expanding, and the Soviets had sent the first man to space. The western world really didn't know if they were going to win in the long-haul, or if the communist ideology would prove superior.

Looking back, we could say the war was unncessary because time has proven the non-competitive communist/socialist economy will crumble and the capitalist, free market system is far superior. But that's an opinion that we have the luxery of making AFTER we had already won the cold war.

The arguement over winning or losing the Vietnam war is mostly irrevelent. Even the Vietnamese government today will admit that the communist economic system is backward and they must reform toward capitalism to prosper.

The Vietnam War was an important lesson that lead to many improvements to the US armed forces and its handling of the media/press. The photo showing children burn by napalm at Trang Bang in 1972 contributed to the push for better, precision guided munitions to avoid hitting civilian targets. And the My Lai massacre and rape of civilians incident lead to better training by the US Army. During the recent actions in Iraq the US commanders would tell their soliders that they expect professional conduct and "no my lais". When confronted with large numbers of Iraqi civilians in a potentially hostile situation, the commander ordered his troops to point their guns down with one knee on the ground. These actions reduced potential civilian deaths and you could say that it's the results of hard lessons from Vietnam.

Another great lesson learned was handling of media/press. The media insertion and laying down the rules - giving Geraldo Rivera the boot for breaking them, was excellent handling of the press.
 

Gollevainen

Colonel
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Re: Anti-Carrier Trump Card

Quit discussing about Vietnam war and US internal sosiety...this is CHINESE navy forum!
 

Su-27 Pilot

Junior Member
Re: What will the 1st PLAN Carrier Battle Group (CBG) look like?

MIGleader said:
of course china will have a carrier, just not converted from old junk like minsk and kiev. a european style light carrier to aid varyag would be good.

BTW, when are those Europeans going to lift the Arms Embargo ??
 

BrotherofSnake

Junior Member
Re: What will the 1st PLAN Carrier Battle Group (CBG) look like?

Su-27 Pilot said:
BTW, when are those Europeans going to lift the Arms Embargo ??

I don't think it is going to be lifted anytime soon.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Re: My trip to the US Navy Reserve Fleet in Bremerton, WA

xcswimmer sez..""know what you mean, sometimes when i click the icons it doesn't appear or when i post something it just freezes there""..

You said it! It's happening to me right now. I'm happy to see I'm not the only one. I too get page freezes.

Jeff mentioned the condition of the Kitty Hawk. You know Jeff a couple of years ago the skipper of the Kitty Hawk was relieved because of engineering problems.

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The Kitty Hawks condition has improved greatly since then.

The JFK on the other hand has had two skipper relieved in the past 4 years. One for a collision at sea. The latter for poor material condition of the ship.
The condition of the JFK is questionoble. Presently tyhe JFK is in out of port doing carrier qualifactions. I question the condition of the ship because why was it not used for any hurricane relief efforts?

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MIGleader

Banned Idiot
Re: What will the 1st PLAN Carrier Battle Group (CBG) look like?

actually, the lifting is imminent. the Europeans just cant resist selling weapons to china despite their embargo. many disscussions have made progress in the lifting of the embargo. france is particularly eager. if china can showcase its new society in the 08 olympics, the embargo is gone. america lifting it may take a while. if ever.
 

sumdud

Senior Member
VIP Professional
Re: My trip to the US Navy Reserve Fleet in Bremerton, WA

Anyway..Jeff posted...""Kitty Hawk CV 63 (one of the last two remaining conventionally powered US carrier in active service) is still out there and going, I guess to be replaced by CVN 77 George Bush in 2008. Hard to believe that is only a little more than 2 years away. She'll be what? 47 years of active service at that time. What a tribute to her builders and the naval personnel operating and and maintaining her!""....
Kitty Hawk is conventionally powered.... That's a lot of maintenance by itself. Why did the USN choose to park the Kitty Hawk there, instead of a CVN? (The Japanese are still scared of the bomb eh?)

CVN-77 will be called George Bush????!!!!!!!!!!!!! :steaming: You have to be kidding.......
 

swimmerXC

Unregistered
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Re: My trip to the US Navy Reserve Fleet in Bremerton, WA

sumdud said:
Kitty Hawk is conventionally powered.... That's a lot of maintenance by itself. Why did the USN choose to park the Kitty Hawk there, instead of a CVN? (The Japanese are still scared of the bomb eh?)

CVN-77 will be called George Bush????!!!!!!!!!!!!! :steaming: You have to be kidding.......

well, it's the first Bush.... so it's not as bad as George W. bush...... :D
besides i dont think they can name a carrier after a president if he's still in power... unless he's done something spetacular
 

adeptitus

Captain
VIP Professional
Re: My trip to the US Navy Reserve Fleet in Bremerton, WA

There's some concerns with more nations or cities imposing bans on nuclear-powered ships. For an example, New Zealand has imposed a ban on nulcear-powered ships within its territorial waters since 1985, and the Australian city of Sydney ban nuclear-powered ships from visiting.

Palau, Fiji, and Vanuatu have declared nuclear-free status, though Fiji has permitted US nuclear-powered submarines within its territorial waters since 1983. Palau has a constitutional-ban on the storage, testing, or transit of nuclear or chemcial weaponery through its land or ocean territory since 1979. This means, it's illegal for any nation's SSBN's to enter Palau's territorial waters.

Although the USN has had an excellent service record with its nuclear-powered ships, today we have to worry about more than just accidents with crazy al-Qaida suicide bombers (see: USS Cole & attempt on USS The Sullivans).
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Re: My trip to the US Navy Reserve Fleet in Bremerton, WA

Sumdud ..the Japanese do not want nuclear powered ships homeported in Japan. This has been a long standing rule the Japanese have. They do allow nuclear powered ships port visits.

CVN-77 will be named USS George H.W. Bush CVN-77. Named after the first Pres Bush. Here's a link.

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As for naming carriers. I don't think carriers should be named after politicans. Even presidents. Carriers should still be named after famous battles,historic sites and famous ships,.. such as Bunker Hill, Saratoga, Bull Run, Trenton, Valley Forge, Gettysburg, Midway, Coral Sea, Yankee Station..I could go on forever..but I won't. Sore subject with me. :(
 
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