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solarz

solarz

Brigadier
ansy1968 said:
Is China the only country doing research in this field?

from CnTechPost

China makes major breakthrough in converting solar energy into liquid fuel​

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March 15, 2021
China has made a breakthrough in converting solar energy into liquid fuels, with a project producing a liquid product with 99.5% methanol content, according to
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.
The success, which was achieved in January 2020 and recently received CCTV coverage, is the first attempt to synthesize direct solar fuels on a global scale.
The project, if operating at full capacity, could produce 1,500 tons of methanol per year, consume 2,000 tons of CO2 and generate 15 million kWh of electricity using solar energy, the report said, citing experts.
China's annual methanol production capacity is about 80 million tons, and in 2019, China accounted for 29 percent of global CO2 emissions. If solar fuel is used to synthesize methanol, hundreds of millions of tons of CO2 can be reduced each year.
The research work on "artificial photosynthesis for solar fuels production" started in 2001: the first step is to turn light into energy in the form of photovoltaic power, the second step is to electrolyze water to make hydrogen, and the third step is to hydrogenate carbon dioxide to make methanol.

Researchers have calculated that each ton of hydrogen produced by electrolysis of water is equivalent to 33,000 kWh of electricity stored. Converting electrical energy into chemical energy is the most efficient chemical energy storage reaction.
If methanol is used as a fuel instead of coal, PM2.5 emissions will be reduced by more than 80% and NOx by more than 90%.
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This is amazing. If scalable, China could turn the Gobi and Taklamakan deserts into energy producing powerhouses.

This has more than just environmental implications. It could potentially make China self-sufficient in energy, and completely neutralize the strategic value of the US capability to block Chinese petroleum imports.
 
vincent

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
solarz said:
This is amazing. If scalable, China could turn the Gobi and Taklamakan deserts into energy producing powerhouses.

This has more than just environmental implications. It could potentially make China self-sufficient in energy, and completely neutralize the strategic value of the US capability to block Chinese petroleum imports.
Click to expand...

At the moment not economicly viable

Cost of the methanol produced using this method is about 2k RMB per ton, main cost is the electricity used in the electrolyzation while market price is around 1800 RMB

CCTV documentary
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N

Nutrient

Junior Member
Registered Member
solarz said:
vincent said:
At the moment not economicly viable

Cost of the methanol produced using this method is about 2k RMB per ton, main cost is the electricity used in the electrolyzation while market price is around 1800 RMB
Click to expand...
The electricity is from solar power, so how do you figure it costs 2k rmb?
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Yes. Solar power is cheap.

But even if @vincent were right that the synthesized methanol costs 2000 RMB per ton, it is still inexpensive compared to gasoline.

Assumptions:
Exchange rate of 6.9 RMB per US dollar.
Density of methanol is 790 kg per cubic meter.

According to @vincent, the synthesized methanol costs 2 RMB per kg. Hence

(2 RMB/kg) * (790 kg/m^3) / (6.9 RMB/$) = $0.23/L

(Can somebody please check my math? Especially the unit conversions.)

In the US, where gasoline is probably cheaper than anywhere outside the sheikdoms, gasoline costs about $0.70 per liter. Methanol has about half the energy/kg of gasoline, so you need to spend about $0.46 to get as much energy from methanol as a liter of gas. But even so, methanol is cheaper, and should be even less expensive when produced by solar power. And since the carbon in the methanol comes presumably from the air and goes back to the air when it's burned, the fuel is carbon neutral.
 
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B

BlackWindMnt

Captain
Registered Member
Nutrient said:
Yes. Solar power is cheap.

But even if @vincent were right that the synthesized methanol costs 2000 RMB per ton, it is still inexpensive compared to gasoline.

Assumptions:
Exchange rate of 6.9 RMB per US dollar.
Density of methanol is 790 kg per cubic meter.

According to @vincent, the synthesized methanol costs 2 RMB per kg. Hence

(2 RMB/kg) * (790 kg/m^3) / (6.9 RMB/$) = $0.23/L

(Can somebody please check my math? Especially the unit conversions.)

In the US, where gasoline is probably cheaper than anywhere outside the sheikdoms, gasoline costs about $0.70 per liter. Methanol has about half the energy/kg of gasoline, so you need to spend about $0.46 to get as much energy from methanol as a liter of gas. But even so, methanol is cheaper, and should be even less expensive when produced by solar power. And since the carbon in the methanol comes presumably from the air and goes back to the air when it's burned, the fuel is carbon neutral.
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Your missing the liter per cubic meters term if I'm not mistaken. When dividing the 1000 liters per cubic meter I get the same result of 0.23 cent per liter.

Converting solar to methanol is also a way to store/transport the energy in a carbon neutral way instead of storing it in huge batteries.
 
D

Dolcevita

Major
vincent said:
At the moment not economicly viable

Cost of the methanol produced using this method is about 2k RMB per ton, main cost is the electricity used in the electrolyzation while market price is around 1800 RMB

CCTV documentary
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Click to expand...
2k and 1800 is not an insurmountable amount as the technology matures and process finesse.
 
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