News on China's scientific and technological development.

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
According to an insider working at SMEE
-The Prototype of the SMEE 28nm Immerssion Lithograph is currently being manufactured and will be ready soon.
-3 units of 28nm Lithographs are being made and SMIC and Huawei are getting one each. They will use it for trials and verification.
-The SMIC 40nm FAB will be completed end of this year. The 28nm FAB will begin construction next year for completion in 2022. However with the SMIC sanction this will definitely be built much faster. After the 28nm FAB will come the 14nm FAB.

This US sanctions wont affect SMIC much. As i have said before 14nm Chips only make up 2% of SMIC sales. Once the new 28nm and 40nm FABs are built their sales will return to normal. Sales will actually increase as the new 28nm FAB in Shanghai is huge.

SMIC will also continue to operate their existing FABs with foreign equipment normally in the mean time as they have stockpiled enough parts and supplies. (Look at the Nikkei article below) They will also be able to get parts locally from other FABs which operate the same equipment or other suppliers.

They may even have enough parts to go ahead and produce their N+1 Chips and possibly supply Huawei.
They can also continue to produce 14nm chips.

SMIC also recently raised USD 6.6 Billion in an IPO in Shanghai recently and they will use it to build several large FABs equipped with China made Semiconductor equipment.

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Hi WTAN,

Is SMIC officially sanction? from what I read from the post of AndrewS is that the US only warn suppliers of SMIC supplying the Chinese military? If they're not sanction then SMIC cant supply Huawei?

from AndrewS

Looks like SMIC is not actually on the Entity List.

The US is *warning* US suppliers they can't ship controlled items to SMIC, which could be for military use.

www.bbc.co.uk

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The commerce department writes to suppliers, warning of risks linked to the Chinese military.
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Nobonita Barua

Senior Member
Registered Member
Hi WTAN,

Is SMIC officially sanction? from what I read from the post of AndrewS is that the US only warn suppliers of SMIC supplying the Chinese military? If they're not sanction then SMIC cant supply Huawei?

from AndrewS

Looks like SMIC is not actually on the Entity List.

The US is *warning* US suppliers they can't ship controlled items to SMIC, which could be for military use.

www.bbc.co.uk

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The commerce department writes to suppliers, warning of risks linked to the Chinese military.
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That doesn't make sense. Military grade CPUs are mostly micro controller level, doesnt require that much processing power unlike commercial PCs.
This seems like a stunt without firing, however micron share dropped almost 10% i read yesterday.
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
That doesn't make sense. Military grade CPUs are mostly micro controller level, doesnt require that much processing power unlike commercial PCs.
This seems like a stunt without firing, however micron share dropped almost 10% i read yesterday.
hi Nobonita Barua

And also from what I know the Chinese military produce their own critical chips in radar , beidou navigation and others, they may had source the non critical part off the shelf. SMEE produce 45 nm double immersion litho and since most military spec chips are within 22nm and above, it is well in China capability.

I hope its an official sanction, so that Huawei and SMIC will be able to work together. Its a win win situation for both company.
 

horse

Major
Registered Member
I hope its an official sanction, so that Huawei and SMIC will be able to work together. Its a win win situation for both company.
Hi ansy1968, it is that expression. It is the only game in town.

I think this fight between Huawei and the US government is basically over.

It is like some hockey game or football game. The game is over, we just do not know the final score. But we know who is going to win.

What is the final score in Europe going to be for Huawei in terms of which countries will ban it which ones will not, no final tally yet?

At this point, that seems to be a secondary concern for Huawei.

The standalone 5G network inside China will be operational nationwide in about a year. The year + 1 day will probably will be the time a lot of new services and business built on top of this new revolutionary network will be implemented. Huawei wants a big piece of that action too with the AI and cloud services.

I read a story where the Germans will delay another final decision with legislation regarding Huawei. China builds while Europe plays politics. They not even in the game. There will be entire industries built on top of 5G networks in China, and the west would not have even built a standalone 5G network. That looks like where this is heading.

The whole point is to build the network. They have to build a 5G network first, before the real fun starts.

That is probably why the United States took the scorched-earth methods towards Huawei and SMIC.

They did not have any other options.

That said a lot about evolving power structures in this world.

:D
 

Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
hi Nobonita Barua

And also from what I know the Chinese military produce their own critical chips in radar , beidou navigation and others, they may had source the non critical part off the shelf. SMEE produce 45 nm double immersion litho and since most military spec chips are within 22nm and above, it is well in China capability.

I hope its an official sanction, so that Huawei and SMIC will be able to work together. Its a win win situation for both company.
22nm and so technology is only one, small aspect of the manufacturing.

Example production of ir sensors requiring dedicated, special technology , require a separated learning curve from other areas.

Same for the milliard ICs used in radhard applications.

So , problem is not the availability of the oven (semiconductor manufacturing line ) , but rather the availability of the experienced cook and available recipe .
 

daifo

Captain
Registered Member
Guys, this whole talk of 7nm vs 14nm is yesterday's debate.

The future is cloud processing. With 5g, you DON'T need local cpu power anymore. Who cares about 7nm vs 14nm when all your processing is going to happen on a cloud mainframe?

14nm is 5-7 year old cpu tech. No owner of cloud servers or pc or phone or car or anything want chips that are lower in processing power, runs hotter , uses more energy, and takes more space than others in the free market. This type of mentality will bring China back decades. It China wants to be the superpower and world manufacturing/tech hub, there is no surrendering till it reach equilibrium with what is on the free market.
 

horse

Major
Registered Member
14nm is 5-7 year old cpu tech. No owner of cloud servers or pc or phone or car or anything want chips that are lower in processing power, runs hotter , uses more energy, and takes more space than others in the free market. This type of mentality will bring China back decades. It China wants to be the superpower and world manufacturing/tech hub, there is no surrendering till it reach equilibrium with what is on the free market.
There is another alternative.

Huawei can continue to buy Intel chips for their cloud servers.

It is only a server. If Huawei cannot get that chip from Intel with their waiver, they will find it from someone else.

America's restrictions on Huawei are half-assed.

:oops:
 

Petrolicious88

Senior Member
Registered Member
Hi ansy1968, it is that expression. It is the only game in town.

I think this fight between Huawei and the US government is basically over.

It is like some hockey game or football game. The game is over, we just do not know the final score. But we know who is going to win.

What is the final score in Europe going to be for Huawei in terms of which countries will ban it which ones will not, no final tally yet?

At this point, that seems to be a secondary concern for Huawei.

The standalone 5G network inside China will be operational nationwide in about a year. The year + 1 day will probably will be the time a lot of new services and business built on top of this new revolutionary network will be implemented. Huawei wants a big piece of that action too with the AI and cloud services.

I read a story where the Germans will delay another final decision with legislation regarding Huawei. China builds while Europe plays politics. They not even in the game. There will be entire industries built on top of 5G networks in China, and the west would not have even built a standalone 5G network. That looks like where this is heading.

The whole point is to build the network. They have to build a 5G network first, before the real fun starts.

That is probably why the United States took the scorched-earth methods towards Huawei and SMIC.

They did not have any other options.

That said a lot about evolving power structures in this world.

:D
Germany and Europe are waiting for the outcome of the US election. But at the end of the day, don't expect Europe to side with Huawei or China. Europe may not like Trump, and may disagree with some US policies from time to time, but they share similar values and culture. EU still wants the US to take a leadership role. It is a lot easier for the EU to go with the US than with China.

China's relationship with EU is mostly transactional, nothing more.

China should strive to build up an alliance of like minded nations in Asia.
 

BrightFuture

New Member
Registered Member
Germany and Europe are waiting for the outcome of the US election. But at the end of the day, don't expect Europe to side with Huawei or China. Europe may not like Trump, and may disagree with some US policies from time to time, but they share similar values and culture. EU still wants the US to take a leadership role. It is a lot easier for the EU to go with the US than with China.

China's relationship with EU is mostly transactional, nothing more.

China should strive to build up an alliance of like minded nations in Asia.

The two faced little sh*ts of Germany already made up their mind

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No Huawei for Germany
 
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