New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China

tphuang

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
superdog said:
I remember you said BYD was a tier above everyone else? I can agree with that. But when it comes to the risk of getting banned, you seem to imply BYD would just be "as successful as" other Chinese EV players? Otherwise I don't understand how you're so sure that BYD would not get picked out alone. I guess we can agree to disagree.

I mentioned the banning risk of BYD (instead of NIO or Xpeng or whatever) precisely because BYD is on a trend to stand out just like Huawei did. BYD still doesn't have the level of international presence Huawei had, but it could get there in a few years, and the risk of "becoming a Huawei level security risk" could rise accordingly. Like I said earlier, the US didn't attack Huawei because it was caught spying, but because it was too successful. AND they did it to contain China, not just to protect their domestic market (that's why they didn't just use tariff or market ban). Huawei had surpassed Apple in European marketshare and was going to enter via mainstream US carrier if not for political intervention. How do you think they achieved that with "terrible reputation in Western countries"? The answer is they didn't have a terrible reputation, they were well received and sought after by many in Western countries (just like BYD of today), that's until the US used State Power to engage Huawei in a world-wide smearing campaign, as well as cutting them off from fabs and GMS. Feel free to do your fact check, I didn't make this up because I'm "obsessed" or "passionate about Huawei".

I think a wise person should be able to learn from history, not just seeing how things are going today. Especially when this "history" just happened a couple years ago under our own eyes.
Click to expand...
So, you are wise and I'm stupid and naive. Wonderful. I think I can stop talking to you now.
 
supercat

supercat

Major
tphuang said:
Here is the global new vehicle sales for 2021. China was at 26 million in 2021, which is almost 1/3 of total world market.
Click to expand...
In comparison, about 18 million cars were sold in the U.S. in its best year ever.

MrCrazyBoyRavi said:
USA will definately ban Chinese car 10 years from now when Chinese EV will become mainstreme.
Click to expand...
I don't think it will take 10 years for Chinese NEVs to go mainstream, a few years maybe. I doubt Chine NEVs will ever be banned in Europe. As for the U.S., a proxy indicator is the fate of the stocks of Nio, XPeng, and Li Auto on the U.S. stock market. It will be a bad sign if they are forced to delist, even when they are willing to comply with regulations.

PopularScience said:
Why must China sell ev to western countries？
Click to expand...
Good question, China's domestic market is by far the largest in the world, especially for NEVs, which will be at least 50% of the world in the next few year. IMHO, China's NEVs won't be banned in Europe and the rest of the world. The question is, will they be banned in the U.S.? The answer is: who cares, China's domestic market, the European market, and the market of the rest of world are more than enough to sustain China's ever-expanding NEV industry.

Electric Viking is impressed by XPeng G9:

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Personally, I think Zeekr 009 looks good. The detailed info about the MPV is in the link below.
Q8ZJE26.jpg


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 
M

Mcsweeney

Junior Member
@superdog I agree with you in principal that the U.S. will find any dumb reason to ban Chinese companies in the U.S. based on some vague "national security concern" when the real reason is protectionism. However, one crucial distinction between Huawei and BYD is that BYD already has a ton of factory production in the U.S. and employs thousands of Americans. Huawei had no such local production. I find it hard to believe that the U.S. will be bold enough to just shutter all these factories and put thousands of Americans out of work based on vague "national security risks". I think it's too late for them to ban BYD now even if they wanted to.
 
tphuang

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
BYD Atto 3 now appears in Netherlands. Should appear in Germany in the near future.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558356615476064257

Also, they promised to release more models to Norway later this year. I think Tang was an early experiment in EU market. It has sold pretty well given the small presence.

Another large batch of Tesla Shanghai production heading for Australia. This shows an important point. Tesla is becoming less competitive in the Chinese market, but it's Shanghai factory is the more efficient of all of its giga factories. As such, it is exporting a huge amount of its Shanghai production. Again, that means all of its export cars in APAC regions are exported from China and most of its cars are using Chinese batteries.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1558047447779352579

China's EV charging stations continue to increase at rapid pace
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

CATL is signing cooperation with Chengdu. Sichuan gov't is also trying to get in all the EV game. They've recently also signed similar agreement with BYD.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 
S

supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
If US or other US aligned countries ban Chinese EV, just forget f’ing climate change already. Biden needs to STFU and GTH if he opens his mouth.
These are some estimates I got for EVs (didn’t go to Tesla because their quality is suspect, all EVs will have issues, but I don’t want to deal with stupid stuff like broken door handles)

1. Mustang Mach-E - “Maybe next year?”
2. Genesis GV60/Hyundai Ioniq - At least 2.5 years
3. Audi Q4 etron - 2024 earliest
4. Cadillac Lyriq- 2024 earliest

The slower that non-Chinese automakers get EVs out into customers hands, the further ahead the Chinese makers will be.
 
tphuang

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Saw this on the shipbuilding thread. Not cars, but quite impressive and probably will get more impressive in the future.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
I will repost the comment
Two Dongxing-100 class river cargo ships were delivered to customer on June 20. Each ship has a displacement of 2,270 t with a maximal payload of 1,800 t. Propulsion is done by two permanent magnetic motors and powered by 3,400 kWh of LFP batteries. The power system utilizes technologies from Ma Weiming team's work on DC IEPS.
Click to expand...
That is seriously impressive

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
This was just as impressive. 100 m long cruise ship carrying 1300 people over 100 km. 7.5 MWh battery pack. 100 km may not sound like a lot, but as energy density keeps going up, maybe we can keep seeing electric drive efficiency improvement and higher density battery packs to reach several hundred km range in 5 years. Maybe you can add some solar panels on top to help with range. This is not a replacement for larger cargo ships. That will probably have to be with green hydrogen and green ammonia. But for shorter ranged ships, this could be sufficient. For cruise ships, you can have them dock every night and recharge. Same with regional cargo ships that follow fixed routes with charging infrastructure.
 
superdog

superdog

Junior Member
Mcsweeney said:
@superdog I agree with you in principal that the U.S. will find any dumb reason to ban Chinese companies in the U.S. based on some vague "national security concern" when the real reason is protectionism. However, one crucial distinction between Huawei and BYD is that BYD already has a ton of factory production in the U.S. and employs thousands of Americans. Huawei had no such local production. I find it hard to believe that the U.S. will be bold enough to just shutter all these factories and put thousands of Americans out of work based on vague "national security risks". I think it's too late for them to ban BYD now even if they wanted to.
Click to expand...
Indeed that's a way to discourage sanctions. The question is do they have a big enough US presence? BYD have been in the US for a long time (over a decade ago I have seen F3DM on US streets and passes their LA HQ everyday to work), but they have yet to really expand. According to their website, BYD US has around 750 unionized workers and "over 1000" in total, not "thousands". For comparison, Huawei employed around 850 in the US when they were forced to exit.

Let's see if the US would allow (and if BYD would choose to have) further US expansion with their consumer vehicles. Honda employs 30k people and indirectly provide 156k dealer jobs in the US, if BYD can match half of that in the future they would certainly be safer.
 
B

B.I.B.

Captain
tphuang said:
Saw this on the shipbuilding thread. Not cars, but quite impressive and probably will get more impressive in the future.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
I will repost the comment

That is seriously impressive

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
This was just as impressive. 100 m long cruise ship carrying 1300 people over 100 km. 7.5 MWh battery pack. 100 km may not sound like a lot, but as energy density keeps going up, maybe we can keep seeing electric drive efficiency improvement and higher density battery packs to reach several hundred km range in 5 years. Maybe you can add some solar panels on top to help with range. This is not a replacement for larger cargo ships. That will probably have to be with green hydrogen and green ammonia. But for shorter ranged ships, this could be sufficient. For cruise ships, you can have them dock every night and recharge. Same with regional cargo ships that follow fixed routes with charging infrastructure.
Click to expand...
just put sails on it and go futher.
 
A

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
superdog said:
Indeed that's a way to discourage sanctions. The question is do they have a big enough US presence? BYD have been in the US for a long time (over a decade ago I have seen F3DM on US streets and passes their LA HQ everyday to work), but they have yet to really expand. According to their website, BYD US has around 750 unionized workers and "over 1000" in total, not "thousands". For comparison, Huawei employed around 850 in the US when they were forced to exit.

Let's see if the US would allow (and if BYD would choose to have) further US expansion with their consumer vehicles. Honda employs 30k people and indirectly provide 156k dealer jobs in the US, if BYD can match half of that in the future they would certainly be safer.
Click to expand...
Bro IF Warren Buffett do sell his share then It's a sign that sanction is coming.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top