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taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
coolgod said:
To be fair Macron wasn't given a really warm welcome either.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1643589115865341953
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No, Macron received full treatment as a head of state can get, including the honor guard on the tarmac and motorcade escort.

642e0f51e4b020d074b5df40.jpg

Here is the video from CCTV.
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Temstar said:
View attachment 110520
von der Leyen has shown up in Beijing, she did not come together with Marcon on the presidential jet but rather took a commercial flight.
No one was there at the airport to welcome her.
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The video above confirms that She arrived separately.

To everyone, seriously though, I don't think China is deliberately giving her an cold treatment in terms of protocol. No matter what the Europeans think, diplomatically she is just a bureaucrat at the rank of a minister, she is not head of state or government, at best on the rank of ambassador who doesn't qualify any welcoming ceremony or meeting at the tarmac treatment.
 
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taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
tamsen_ikard said:
They want to become independent without declaring independence. And currently they are succeeding towards moving to that goal step by step.
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Like my backyard is an independent country without me declaring independence? They are succeeding towards that goal by getting less and lees countries giving a dump to their achievement? That is really some way of self-comforting.
 
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taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
A small but interesting observation is that China has changed protocol of security details for VIP.

The Chinese guard or head of security detail for Macron is wearing a (regular) police uniform rather than PAP uniform in the past.
642e0f51e4b020d074b5df40.jpg
 
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emblem21

Major
Registered Member
canonicalsadhu said:
I don't get the hate for Macron. He is by far the most pro-China EU leader (besides Orban maybe). I watched the press conference of Xi and Macron and Macron was very positive and sincere. He hailed China's role in the Iran-Saudi peace deal, he welcomed the Silk road initiative, he hailed the many economic agreements signed, he stressed the necessity to elevate bilateral relations, he talked about the need for European autonomy, etc.
Of course he brought the Ukraine issue and human rights but not in a condescending tone. I think the meeting went really well.
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I think it is more the domestic failures of his rather than any reaction to China. But then again many leaders would actually be smarter and more reasonable if the USA didn’t have a save in the matter. His pension reform isn’t helping matters in France and his general failure in Africa is making everything worse for France so he needs some kind of a win somewhere
 
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taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
baykalov said:
I answer this question why my home country Bulgaria became a member of NATO. I quote Bulgarian politicians who were negotiating Bulgaria's accession to the EU at the time: we were told clearly by Brussels that Bulgaria would only be accepted as a member of the EU if it first became a member of NATO. This is an unofficial precondition: without NATO there is no EU. Bulgaria became a NATO member in 2004 and was admitted to the EU in 2007. With similar blackmail and pressure, NATO expanded in Eastern Europe towards Russia's borders.

I assume that the situation is similar now with North Macedonia, which became a NATO member in 2020 and can now be accepted into the EU.
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Serb said:
The same is true for Montenegro. Polls showed that way more people were against it, at that time, but the dictator president (who ruled for 30+ years, just yesterday lost in the elections) directly led the country into NATO without a referendum and without any kind of public opinion. As for why he did that, he is just like a narco president of the past century in South America, they blackmailed him for his criminal activities probably. He also order to used to arrest, beat down, and destroy the opposition. In the beginning, he was a pro-Serb, but later CIA acquired him and he just changed his political course overnight and turned to be genocidal against Serbs ever since then. I think they also promised something along the lines of faster joining the EU which is a fairy tale. I think they also did a similar thing in North Macedonia, I mean CIA and the West, promises of EU + covert operations, media campaigns, coups, etc. Nothing of that was legitimate.
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As I kept saying in this forum, EU and NATO is the two faces of the same coin.

[Addition]
Just a mind game, now after joining EU, can Hungary, Bulgaria, Montenegro quit NATO? EU does not have a clause to expel members.:D
 
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gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Biscuits said:
Judging by casualty ratios, they could roll through in 2022 as well, if Russia had committed the whole air force and army.

The problem is what happens afterwards when an equally sized NATO volunteer army and US air force hits the overextended Russian occupation regions. Probably a complete collapse back to the Dnieper at best and Crimea at worst.
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Russia in 2014 was dependent on food imports from the EU and relied on SWIFT for internal financial transactions. Not just external ones. They were simply not ready for sanctions. If they were sanctioned like they were in 2022 people would have starved and all electronic money transactions would have stopped.

This time they had the Mir debit and credit cards. All pensioners and government workers had one. And they had the SPFS financial transaction network.
 
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taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
canonicalsadhu said:
I don't get the hate for Macron. He is by far the most pro-China EU leader (besides Orban maybe). I watched the press conference of Xi and Macron and Macron was very positive and sincere. He hailed China's role in the Iran-Saudi peace deal, he welcomed the Silk road initiative, he hailed the many economic agreements signed, he stressed the necessity to elevate bilateral relations, he talked about the need for European autonomy, etc.
Of course he brought the Ukraine issue and human rights but not in a condescending tone. I think the meeting went really well.
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Maybe disappointing is the more suitable word. When Chinese judging Macron, people are using Jacques Chirac as the baseline. When judging German chancellors, Gerhard Schröder is the baseline.
 
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Michaelsinodef

Senior Member
Registered Member
gelgoog said:
Russia in 2014 was dependent on food imports from the EU and relied on SWIFT for internal financial transactions. Not just external ones. They were simply not ready for sanctions. If they were sanctioned like they were in 2022 people would have starved and all electronic money transactions would have stopped.

This time they had the Mir debit and credit cards. All pensioners and government workers had one. And they had the SPFS financial transaction network.
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Basically, the imaginary scenario of Russia collapsing due to the sanctions, could maybe have happened if they did those sanctions back in 2014.

Or at the very least, the damages they would cause would have been far, far more substanstial and probably induced a very large scale crisis.
 
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pmc

Colonel
Registered Member
Michaelsinodef said:
Basically, the imaginary scenario of Russia collapsing due to the sanctions, could maybe have happened if they did those sanctions back in 2014.

Or at the very least, the damages they would cause would have been far, far more substanstial and probably induced a very large scale crisis.
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i would not go that far. In 2014 global oil/Gas industry was not that big when you look at LNG capacity and Europe still far too depended. but Russia would have definitely felt the sanctions much more than now. i would think only Syria solved the reliability of air power. The scale of helicopter operations that you see now in Ukraine that would not possible without Syria experience. and without choppers occupation not economical and effective. There is also another benefit now as Israel moved up the technology chain. it give Russia better insight of things that will happen.

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