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pmc

Major
Registered Member
When UK/US stabbed the Arabs in the heart by creating an apartheid that stole the 3rd most holiest site of Muslims which was formerly a possession of the Sharifs of Mecca for a 1,000+ years, and ethnically cleansed the local Arab population while the Arabs kept losing land and wars to the apartheid.. was that Arabic soft power or Arabic system failure?
UK/US also divided India on behalf of Arabs. ( Look it up where Japan sent first Toyota and than 2nd one). and whole host of other European colonies especially the misrule of French. There is reason Saudis have appointed a French speaking African to the the senior Post of OIC.
The only other nation that current house of Saud owe anything are the Afghans and the other are Baluch due to Oman. make sure you understand why this Sultan of Oman and its people are regarded so high in Gulf Emirates. and only Sultan of Oman got such reception in UAE which usually not happen on this scale among the Gulf Arabs.

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CMP

Senior Member
Registered Member
I am fairly convinced that the West in general, and the imperial center in particular rolled a natural 1 by going out of their way to antagonize China, and rolled a critical failure by antagonizing both China and Russia in the same decade. I just hope I live long enough to see the final end result of such hubris.
 

Santamaria

Junior Member
Registered Member
Spain allowed it initially. They later forbade native enslavement because the native slaves were less productive and kept dying of European diseases. Native slaves were replaced by African slaves who were more productive, efficient and resistant to disease.
There is some caveats to that. Spain not only allowed but even promoted Nathualt, writing grammar books about it. That is the Main reason that nowadays we know the language.

Later on some Spanish king declares Spanish the official language of the empire, what is wrongly mistaken by some historians as forbid the other languages in the empire (thing that is now true)

Nathualt was predominant in Mexico until the independence, ironically it was the Mexican state the one that crushed the language and make it almost disappear.
The number of nathuatl speakers peaked in 1800, just prior to the independence of Mexico
 

Santamaria

Junior Member
Registered Member
Outer Mongolia gained independence because of Russian and later Soviet involvement. Plain and simple. Sure, some Mongolians were involved, but the fact stands that without Russian/Soviet involvement, Mongolia would not have been independent. The issue is not just about lands that were lost, the Russians/Soviets also caused mass suffering and deaths in inner Manchuria. From the Russo-Japanese War to the Warlord Era to the "Liberation" at the end of WW2, countless Chinese suffered/died due to Russian/Soviet actions. But as Imperial Russia, the Soviet Union, and Qing China all no longer exist, history shouldn't preclude cooperation between the Russian Federation and the PRC. But neither should history be whitewashed/forgotten just because of the current strategic partnership. The history of the Century of Humiliation should never be forgotten, and Chinese are pragmatic and intelligent enough to both remember the real history and see the importance of a mutually beneficial partnership with the Russian Federation.



The carrier, as well as the Su-33 prototype which aided the development of the J-15 came from Ukraine. Also, Ukrainians provided massive assistance to the Chinese aerospace and space industries. By that logic, should China be siding with the Ukrainians? The USSR helped China for a short period of time from 1949-1962 when the interests of the two countries aligned. The Germans also helped China for a decade prior to WW2 and the West helped China for about a decade towards the end of the Cold War, also because interests aligned. China doesn't owe anything to any of those nations/blocs.



Imperial Japan could never have won. By the time the USSR pillaged liberated Manchuria from the emaciated remains of the Kwantung army in 1949, Japan was losing ground in all fronts across China and the Nationalists were already planning their final offensive. More than 20 million Chinese also died during WW2. The Soviet sacrifices were for the survival of their own nation, against the Germans, nothing to do with China's war against Japan. The US/UK contributed far more in the fight against Japan than the USSR ever did, and even their contribution is only a drop in the bucket when compared to the Chinese war effort. If the USSR didn't exist, there would not have been a Korean war in the first place. The USSR had an equal stake as China in the Korean war, yet it was only Chinese that paid in blood.



No. Historically, China suffered far more than benefited from Russia. China should support Russia because partnership today benefits both countries. Specifically, China should support Russia because supporting Russia is good for China. Past history (both the good and the bad) should have no impact whatsoever on the strategic calculus. Sino-Russian partnership has the potential to be mutually beneficial for a long period of time, and it would be in China's interest to focus on building lasting ties that will persist far into the future. But there should be no illusion of any form of, "forever brotherhood," and China should hedge against a divergence of interests between Russia and China. Again, the Sino-Soviet friendship lasted barely a decade before the PRC and USSR became strategic adversaries.
Are you a Chinese citizen? Or a westernwe pretending he knows what is good or bad for China and how they should feel about Russia?

You are here distorting realities about Russia and China without point.

Their relationship has been pretty good for 2 neighbouring superpowers.
Imperial russia only took Manchuria after China was defeated by the British in the second opium war. What do you expect them to do? To allow British settlement there, neighbouring themselves?
I don’t think there is much to blame there, it is pretty normal in the context of the Great Game and the rivalry with the British empire

The Soviet Union did help a lot China. Many original Chinese communist leaders were trained there, as for example the father of Xi.
They also provided a lot of the original technology for the heavy industry.
And without wining nothing. The West did not provide technology for nothing by in exchange for basically mega cheap chinese Labour.
Compare it is absurd.

Then sadly come the split due to the idiocy of Krushev the traitor. Without that idiot, his animosity towards Mao and his reforms I think the U.S. system would be history already.

But China and Russia has been beneficial to its other to a large extent. Their relation has been far better than relation between most nato allies between themselves across history.

Also they have very different areas of interest. For a country the most interest is populated areas. Like Slavic countries in Western Europe and for China sino sphere in Asia
 

Santamaria

Junior Member
Registered Member
I am fairly convinced that the West in general, and the imperial center in particular rolled a natural 1 by going out of their way to antagonize China, and rolled a critical failure by antagonizing both China and Russia in the same decade. I just hope I live long enough to see the final end result of such hubris.
The main point is that the West was going to loose supremacy anyway.
Chinese system is simply more effective allocating resources, and they also have the man power and a crazy work ethic.
Without external actions China would have reach world supremacy anyway. And Russia would have reach supremacy on Europe sooner or later due to population and resources.

So for the west was imperative a conflict to stop this. They hoped that they could defeat Russia and then surround China.
This is in all their strategies since 100 years ago.

Russia and China know this and they collaborate to avoid it.

The west therefore could not avoid to fight Russia now. And while they could have avoid this tension with China, it would not have change the attitude of Chinese government towards Russia.

Also the west have the spirit of a bully and we should not underestimate the level of their racism and arrogance.
 

supercat

Major
Not just that. Russia was top 3 perpetrator during the century of humiliation. People who were in the northeastern 3 provinces won't easily forget Soviet "liberation," at the end of WW2.
Considering what Imperial Japan did to China during their invasion in WW2, and Japan's utter refusal to repent to this day, I hold more resentment against Japan than Russia. It puzzles me why some people don't understand this simple question:
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The US can't stop the development of China's semiconductor industry.

ASEAN knows which side of their bread is buttered.

Get used to it. Someday one of China's periodic military exercises may well become a war of reunification.

Unmistakable signs that China's economy is bullish and booming.
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Santamaria

Junior Member
Registered Member
Spanish Empire was broken up by you know who. For all the talk of how Spanish conquistador were the most brutal colonizers, I must note that Spain made Nahuatl an official language of Mexico and Quecha an official language of Peru. They also did not allow Native Americans to be enslaved. Some other country forced Native Americans to speak English and enslaved them in "residency schools" with mass graves.
Yes, and what is specially sad of the broken up of the empire is not the independence from Spain itself.
It is the crazy divisions artificially created there to have weak countries.
Before Colombia and Venezuela were one for example. The old Virreinato or Granada
Argentina, Paraguay and Uruguay also one. The virreinato de la Plata.
And Mexico, the old virreinato de nueva España was huge, including all Central America (Nicaragua, Guatemala) and half of nowadays US (Texas, Nuevo Mexico)

Without those divisions there would be huge powerful countries there that would not be so easily bullied by the U.S.

If you want to find other funny examples about the caricaturisation of Spanish of that time you also can check the Inquisition.

Infamous Spanish Inquisition burned 1 witch in 300 years or so. In liberal Democratic Switzerland they burned 5000 and in amazing liberal Germany 9000.
 

doggydogdo

New Member
Registered Member
Imperial Japan could never have won. By the time the USSR pillaged liberated Manchuria from the emaciated remains of the Kwantung army in 1949, Japan was losing ground in all fronts across China and the Nationalists were already planning their final offensive. More than 20 million Chinese also died during WW2. The Soviet sacrifices were for the survival of their own nation, against the Germans, nothing to do with China's war against Japan. The US/UK contributed far more in the fight against Japan than the USSR ever did, and even their contribution is only a drop in the bucket when compared to the Chinese war effort. If the USSR didn't exist, there would not have been a Korean war in the first place. The USSR had an equal stake as China in the Korean war, yet it was only Chinese that paid in blood.
USSR did liberate Manchuria, calling it "pillaging" is Japanese/western propaganda, it's ok to criticize the soviets but you should have to resort to literal imperialist propaganda to do so. Also why are you simping for the nationalists? Their incompetency and selfishness are the reason why so many Chinese died.
 
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