Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 is Missing

delft

Brigadier
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

I'm just listening to BBC Radio 4 News at 1700 London Time. It just said that an Inmarsat satellite in geo-stationary orbit received pings from the aircraft until five hours after radio communication was lost. From the pings one can learn something about the distance to the aircraft, i.e. if the timing of the pings changes from its set time distance it means the distance between the aircraft and the satellite changes.
It is an exceptionally strange case.
 

Quickie

Colonel
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

You would think that Geologists all over the world would have the same opinion on such general seismic matter. :confused:

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U.S. Scientists: 'Seismic Event' Near Missing Jet Path is Normal
The “seismic event” that Chinese scientists detected close to where the missing Malaysia Airlines jet lost contact and said were consistent with a plane crash are “regularly occurring,” U.S. scientists said Friday.

U.S. Geological Survey analysts “have a different conclusion” than the University of Science and Technology of China, which said Friday morning: “It was a non-seismic zone, therefore judging from the time and location of the event, it might be related to the missing MH370 flight."

“The location coincides with a region of regularly occurring seismicity along the Sunda-Java trench,” according to a report by the USGS.

The waveforms were consistent with a 2.7 magnitude earthquake, according to the report.

USGS analysts said that the area where the activity was detected “has been the source of a handful of great earthquakes in the past decade.”

The location — southwest of Sumatra — is also prone to volcanoes, according to the report.

Flight MH370 ceased communications with air traffic control on Saturday and 13 countries are involved in the search effort.

UNIVERSITY OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY
A map of a “seismic event” consistent with an airplane crash on the sea floor close to where missing Malaysia Airlines jet lost contact with air traffic control was released by Chinese scientists on Friday. The black star indicates where the plane lost contact, the red star where the event was detected and the blue triangles show the locations of seismic monitors. The black waves on the bottom right of the map show recording of the tremors.
 

no_name

Colonel
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

If this is in Malaysian waters, I hope Malaysia will allow Chinese ships to search that coordinate and I hope the Chinese ships will take a look if they believe the seismic readings warrant investigating. While the big focus now is in the Andaman and Indian Ocean, there's still no confirmation of wreckage so a two prong approach is not wasteful at all. Although the area may have been searched, keep in mind, not all SAR assets have sonar.

It is not in anybody's territorial waters. I say the Chinese should take their own initiative and search the area with sonar assets. And make it clear that they are committed to stay in the area for indefinitely as necessary until the plane is found.

I do not believe at all that a passenger plane could go missing and not be tracked/found eventually around near an area like this.

This whole thing is fishy. If lay people like us find it fishy and do not want to be bull_______ by lack of explanation then countries should not be either. Otherwise this may open up precedence for other fuzzy shenanigans in the future.

The old saying goes. If alive, we need to see the person. If dead, we need to see the corpse. That also applies to big commmercial planes.
 
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delft

Brigadier
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

The Inmarsat statement of today:
14 March 2014: Inmarsat has issued the following statement regarding Malaysia Airlines flight MH370.

Routine, automated signals were registered on the Inmarsat network from Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 during its flight from Kuala Lumpur.

This information was provided to our partner SITA, which in turn has shared it with Malaysia Airlines.

For further information, please contact Malaysia Airlines.

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Quite clearly it says much less than was reported by the BBC today.

Addenda:
The BBC web site has this article with little additional information:
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no_name

Colonel
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

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Assets participating in the search. I would not be surprised that as well as searching for the missing plane the Chinese satellite assets are also keeping tab on other countries' search effort in case they found something significant.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

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NBC News said:
Military radar evidence suggests the missing Malaysia Airlines jetliner was deliberately flown west toward the Indian Ocean’s Andaman Islands, sources told Reuters on Friday as mounting evidence pointed to a criminal inquiry into Flight MH370.

Two sources told Reuters that an unidentified aircraft – believed by investigators to be the missing Boeing 777 - was following a route between navigational way-points, indicating it was being flown by someone with aviation training when it was last plotted on military radar off the country's northwest coast.

It echoes earlier reports – based on information from U.S. officials - that the jet ‘pinged’ signals to a satellite for up to four hours after it disappeared from civilian radar screens - an indication that it was likely still flying for hundreds of miles or more.

There were also growing signs of a rift Friday between Malaysian investigators and U.S. officials over the progress of the hunt for MH370 – and a question of whether information about satellite data had been shared with local officials.

At a news conference in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia’s transport minister refused to respond to the reports, which he dismissed as “unsourced.”

“I need to know who is saying these things,” he told reporters.

A statement from his department echoed that frustration, saying information about data from the plane would not be released “until it has been properly verified and corroborated.”

“Any new evidence should be passed to the investigation team in Malaysia in order to assist the investigation,” the statement said.

There was another possible lead Friday when Chinese scientists said a “seismic event” consistent with an airplane crash was detected on the sea floor close to where the missing jet disappeared from civilian radar screens.

The signal detected by two stations in Malaysia appeared to indicate that a small tremor occurred on the floor of the sea at 2:55 a.m. about 95 miles south of Vietnam, the scientists said in a statement posted on the website of the University of Science and Technology of China.

Late Thursday, White House spokesman Jay Carney indicated that the focus of the sea search may shift further west toward the Indian Ocean.

"It's my understanding that based on some new information that's not necessarily conclusive - but new information - an additional search area may be opened in the Indian Ocean," he said.

The Reuters report appeared to reinforce the theory – floated by ex-NTSB crash investigator Greg Feith to NBC News on Wednesday – that the airliner was deliberately flown hundreds of miles off its course by someone who knew how to disable the transponders that indicate its position.

"What we can say is we are looking at sabotage, with hijack still on the cards," a senior Malaysia police source told Reuters.

The last plot on the military radar's tracking suggested the plane was flying toward India's Andaman Islands, a chain of isles between the Andaman Sea and the Bay of Bengal, sources told Reuters.

Way-points are geographic coordinates that help pilots navigate along established air corridors. The last confirmed position of MH370 on civilian radar was at 35,000 feet about 90 miles off the east coast of Malaysia, heading toward Vietnam, near a navigational way-point called "Igari" at 1:21 a.m. local time.

Reuters said the military radar data seen by its sources suggests the plane then turned sharply westwards, heading toward a way-point called "Vampi," northeast of Indonesia's Aceh province and a navigational point used for planes following route N571 to the Middle East. From there, the plot indicates the plane flew toward a way-point called "Gival", south of the Thai island of Phuket, and was last plotted heading northwest toward another way-point called "Igrex", on route P628 that would take it over the Andaman Islands and which carriers use to fly toward Europe.

The time was then 2:15 a.m. local time. That's the same time given by the air force chief on Wednesday, who gave no information on that plane's possible direction.
 
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broadsword

Brigadier
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

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Aviation Experts Aren't Convinced That The Missing Jet Flew For Hours After It Disappeared
Agence France Presse
BHAVAN JAIPRAGAS, Agence France Presse
Mar. 14, 2014, 3:24 PM 1,263 4



The dramatic expansion of the search for a missing Malaysian airliner suggests the plane flew thousands of miles off course, crossing -- apparently undetected -- a sensitive region bristling with military radar.

Aviation experts on Friday queried the plausibility of such a scenario, but confirmation from US and Malaysian officials that the search was being widened into the vast Indian Ocean suggested it had credible underpinnings.

If there was debate over what might have happened to Flight MH370, there was a general consensus as to the extraordinary nature of its disappearance without trace a week ago over the South China Sea.

"I would probably go ahead and say this is unprecedented," said Anthony Brickhouse, a member of the International Society of Air Safety Investigators.

"In most investigations each day you move forward, you uncover more things, more clues," Brickhouse told AFP.

"But in this one it seems that each day that goes by something that you thought was a lead turns out not to be a lead and you're back to square one again."

The expansion of the search area came as multiple US media reports, citing American officials, said the plane's communication system continued to "ping" a satellite for up to four hours after it disappeared en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing.

The reports amplified on Malaysia's belief, based on a radar sighting, that the plane may have mysteriously turned back towards Kuala Lumpur just over an hour into its flight when no technical problem was apparent, on a calm night in fine weather.
Somebody would have acted?

But Neil Hansford, chairman of leading Australian airline consultancy Strategic Aviation Solutions, balked at the idea of the plane flying on for undetected more than four hours through various national airspaces.

"An aircraft, without any transponders on, going over the top of anybody's airspace would have become a military incident and somebody would have done something," Hansford said.

Southeast Asia, and particularly the South China Sea, is a hotbed of bitter territorial disputes that are the subject of round-the clock surveillance by the competing parties.

Flying from the point where radar contact was lost to the Indian Ocean would have taken the plane through airspace monitored by Malaysian, Thai, Vietnamese, Chinese, Indonesian and Indian military radar.

"How did it get past all of that?" said Gerry Soejatman, an independent aviation analyst based in Jakarta.

One possibility is that the radar systems did pick something up, but it was unclear, and there was a reluctance to flag up data that would also reveal details about military radar capabilities.

"Defence is not only about having the capability but also not disclosing what capabilities you don't have," said David Kaminski-Morrow, the London-based air transport editor for Flight International.

"I am sure there is a lot of discussion in the back rooms on what information you want to put out there to help search for the aircraft, and what you don't want out in the public domain," he said.

Neither the US Navy nor White House has detailed the source of the intelligence that led to the redeployment of the destroyer USS Kidd towards the Indian Ocean.

But Malaysian Transport Minister Hishammuddin Hussein told reporters that his government was "sharing information we don't normally share for security reasons."
Competing scenarios

The confounding mystery has fuelled a host of contending scenarios, including a mid-air explosion, terrorist act, catastrophic technical failure, pilot suicide or rogue missile strike.

The idea that it flew for hours, and thousands of miles, over the Indian Ocean would appear to lend credence to the notion of some sort of cockpit takeover.

The theory has gathered further weight from other unconfirmed reports that the plane's two main automated communication systems shut down 14 minutes apart -- suggesting this was done manually rather than caused by an explosion or other sudden catastrophic event.

But Soejatman said the time lag could have been the result of a fire.

"We have seen cases where there have been cockpit fires, and then the systems go down one by one," he said. "It doesn't necessarily have to be deliberate."

Several analysts noted that speculation was being fuelled by the public's widespread disbelief that a modern passenger plane carrying 239 people could just vanish -- in an age of instant communication where smartphones have brought advanced technology into everyone's pockets.

Although it has been almost a week, Paul Yap, an aviation lecturer at Temasek Polytechnic in Singapore, argued that the search was "still in its very early days" and that expectations had to be re-calibrated.

"The unusual problem and maybe the most important one in this case is that there is nothing that can tell them exactly how to deploy their resources," he said.

"I know that is frustrating to hear ... especially for the families, but right now that is the reality."

Copyright (2014) AFP. All rights reserved.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

Fox news is running with them continuing in flight. According to them, the Transponder and ACARS were turned off, but the aircraft's communications system sent a signal 14 times well looking for a satellite. They describe it like a Cell Phone searching for a signal periodically sending out a shout hoping for a response.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

Fox news is running with them continuing in flight. According to them, the Transponder and ACARS were turned off, but the aircraft's communications system sent a signal 14 times well looking for a satellite. They describe it like a Cell Phone searching for a signal periodically sending out a shout hoping for a response.

The US Navy is tasking more and more effort to the Indian Ocean.

They are not doing so on a lark...and apparently the US is not being as forthcoming now with Malaysia. This indicates the US is on to something, and for whatever reason, may not trust Malaysia to be able to coordinate it effectively.

But the US is being very straight forward about the 14 satellite transmissions from the aircraft. And that those transmissions may not have been able to be disabled from the flight deck. The US is also being upfront about the direction that info indicated the aircraft took. And the US is now going to employ its newly deployed P-8A Poseidon aircraft to the search in that regard.

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US NAvy P-8A aircraft, deployed to Japan, prior to take-off

Wall Street Journal said:
The U.S. Navy will send one of its new P-8A Poseidon surveillance aircraft to join an older P-3 Orion in the search for missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, a spokesman for the Seventh Fleet said Thursday.

The P-8, a modified Boeing 737 that the Navy only started using late last year, is faster and has a much longer range than the propeller-driven P-3, which was sent to join the search on Saturday.

That capability could be crucial if the search extends further from the Malaysian coast following a Wall Street Journal report that U.S. investigators suspect Flight 370 stayed in the air for about four hours past the time it reached its last confirmed location.

The P-8, which is the U.S. Navy’s most advanced antisubmarine and aerial reconnaissance aircraft, would move into the area on Saturday to join the search in a daily rotation with the P-3, said Seventh Fleet spokesman Cmdr. William J. Marks.

The P-8 has a maximum speed of 490 knots (or nautical miles per hour), a ceiling of 41,000 feet and provides a range of more than 1,200 nautical miles with four hours on station, he said. That’s about 300 nautical miles further than the P-3.

For a search mission like this, the P-8 would typically fly at 5,000 to 10,000 feet at 350 knots, with a search time of about 8-9 hours, depending on distance to search area, he said.

“This move adds the P-8’s enhanced technology and greater range to the search efforts while maximizing planned maintenance and guarding against air crew fatigue for both aircraft,” the spokesman said.

The P-3 flew a search mission on Thursday evening using its radar, infrared and night vision capabilities, he said.

e did not say where the P-8 was coming from, but the U.S. has deployed six of the new aircraft to Okinawa in southern Japan since December as part of its “rebalancing” strategy to shift more military assets to Asia.

Cmdr. Marks also said that one of the two U.S. destroyers involved in the search, the USS Kidd, was moving from the Gulf of Thailand to the Strait of Malacca and was expected to arrive there to continue the search in 24-48 hours.

“We do not have detailed information on her assignment in the Strait of Malacca at this time,” he said.

The other U.S. destroyer, the USS Pinckney, was being sent to Singapore for planned maintenance and routine voyage repairs, he said.

“With the search area expanding into the Strait of Malacca, Pinckney is not currently needed until follow-on information is available and planning occurs. She will continue searching during her transit south today.”

The Seventh Fleet had no information to corroborate reports of debris spotted by Chinese satellites, he added. China has released satellite images of what it says could be the crash site in an area off the southern tip of Vietnam, although it’s not clear how strong the lead is.

The P-8A Poseidon aircraft will join P-3C aircraft, MH-60R helicopters, and the two AEGIS destroyers already involved in the search.

So does this mean that there might be a possibility that the plane might still be intact and passengers still alive? I wish they are still alive... they might have become hostages by now, but at least there is still a chance that they might be saved...
I hope and pray they are too, vesicles.

But I fear that the target of this incident was aquiring the aircraft.

If that ends up being the case, I fear that those who took the aircraft will not keep any of those people who were on it, and who were able to see what was happening while it was taken, alive.

If indeed people have taken this aircraft for what would be clearly untoward, criminal, and potentially very destructive purposes, then those poeple deserves to be hunted down to the ends of the earth by the civilized nations of the earth...and they undoubtedly know this and will do everything in their power to ensure that they cannot be found until they have accomplished whatever it is they intend by taking this aircraft.

Such a scenario would bode very badly for the innocent people (passengers and crew) aboard that aircraft.
 
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