I wasn't referring to roads China built in Yadong County. There must have been some misunderstanding there. However, over the past few decades, China was constructing roads in the northern portion of the plateau, which was identified by the King of Bhutan as disputed. The standoff did not occur until China tried to extend to the South, as I have said before.
Ladakh Flash Point
- Thread starter Mt1701d
- Start date
- Status
During a time you admitted was not disputed. So basically China built some road networks when this was China proper. Since 2017, (and almost definitely under Indian influence) Bhutan made a claim on territory it previously recognised as being China.
If China today randomly claims New Delhi, do you think it's reasonable for me to say here that India has built roads within disputed territory of New Delhi? So how come your above logic applies to Bhutan and northern Doklam?
manqiangrexue
Brigadier
Says an Indian reading his media that are all proven wrong by video evidence LOL
India can't even deal with its own internal issues; dealing with China is a dream.
Dispute. China didn't pick any fights. China flies over Taiwan because we own it. When China sinks ships, it's because they did not respect the Chinese coast guard in Chinese waters.
Your theory is wrong. China's handling of COVID was the best in the world under the most difficult circumstances of the world. Not only do we not want diversion from it, we deserve recognition for it.
You mean the humiliation India saw as it unilaterally withdrew seeing China bring in heavy artillery from the east.
It chose whatever time Indians chose to initiate the cowardly ambush.
In the South China Sea, China only gains islands and makes them bigger. Nobody stops China.
The US must share those delusions because they are in panic.
Not really. We see hate and internal strife and a US that chooses the weakest countries in the world with oil to go kill their civilians calling them terrorists. What did those checks do?
Soon, you won't have to imagine.
Because that is China's destiny.
Yeah, to a country like Pakistan. Better than a country like India. What's your point?
True. Even for a backwards barbaric country like India, we expected military norms established centuries ago to be followed, which is not to attack unarmed negotiators. Giving India too much credit is China's only miscalculation.
As you say, never be predictable.
BECAUSE INDIA STARTED THE COWARDLY AMBUSH ON UNARMED NEGOTIATORS. The answer doesn't change just because you don't like it.
Who's this imaginary "they"? We all know India started this in the dirtiest way possible.
As we say in China, "We don't fear god-like enemies, but we fear pig-like allies." The US is in for it LOLOL
Last edited:
That was a typo on my part, i meant to say there was no standoff or physical confrontations there between China and india or Bhutan until China tried extending into the South. I believe the report by the King of Bhutan makes it pretty clear what the dispute is.
If two countries claim an area, that means the area is disputed by definition.
manqiangrexue
Brigadier
I'm... genuinely shocked that such an incompetent bunch could understand this.
What have you secured them with? "Soldiers" who run away to their own deaths and others who ask for medals when they survive?
Yes, that's a good move. Foreigners are more competent.
Has been wished what? LOLOL I wish my grandpa would come back to life.
But still at a snail's pace compared to China.
You mean your unpaved roads and your "living quarters" build to the standards of what are used for SWAT training/bombing practice in modern countries?
No, it's more like that time where Pakistan shot down your jet, then you shot down your own chopper.
Let India's failures and China's success flow, as they always have.
You can't salvage something that your opponent made up. I don't know what Indian media told you but all we saw was India withdrawing when China was just starting up bringing its heavy equipment.
Does the roach consider the owner of the kitchen a nuisance... or his bane? You have things backwards; incompetent India is nothing but a nuisance for China.
Please, the only reason India's still around is because it hasn't toyed much with its nukes. Looking at its mishaps with military equipment, the biggest nuclear threat to India are Indian nukes.
Uh huh. And which part of India's unexpected unilateral retreat did most of the thwarting?
Yeah, until India retreated, and that was that.
No, we buzz their jets and destroyers until they leave and we expand our territory in the South China Sea. There is no superior power.
By allowing India to retreat rather than launching artillery earlier?
OK, so don't make them before you end up self-nuking.
No, those gaffs are inline with the Indian tradition of failure.
Indian failures are always predictable; it's just unpredictable in which way they will fail next. But I see you admired China's unpredictability.
Last edited:
Exactly like I have said. So basically the general history is the following?
From 2002 to 2017, China has built roads in northern Doklam which was recognised by Bhutan as China.
In 2017, China realised it needs a short stretch of southern Bhutan to connect a road and so called up the Bhutan government in hopes to negotiate a swap of land, offering Bhutan something they agree with in exchange with this stretch it needs in southern Doklam.
2017, India interjects and in this year Bhutan also claims northern Doklam when it was previously China and recognised as China.
2017, India puts military presence to ensure China and Bhutan won't reach an agreement and even if they do, India will not allow China to complete the connection. China also has military presence in case the matter flares up.
After this, China reroutes the road entirely through another part of China proper.
The King of Bhutan literally said those areas were disputed in a report to the National assembly in 2002. So according to Bhutan, that area was never a part of China proper, even if China had a presence there.
And I have yet to see this shown.
This is the relevant section of that article.
"The Fourteenth round of boundary talk was held in Beijing, China in November 2000. Chinese Premier Zhu Rongji said that China and Bhutan are good-neighbourly countries, and the two countries had close contacts in the past, adding that Sino-Bhutanese relations have developed steadily since the two countries signed an agreement on the maintenance of peace and tranquillity in the border area in 1998. .
During this round of talk, Bhutan had extended the claim line of the border beyond what the Chinese government had offered. Bhutan had also proposed technical discussions, using maps, between experts from the two sides. His Majesty the King told the National Assembly of Bhutan on 14 July, 2001 that the proposed extension of the border along the three sectors under discussion were in Doglam, Sinchulumba, and Dramana areas. His Majesty expressed his confidence that, Bhutan being a small country and China being a very large and friendly neighbour, the demarcation of the boundary would be completed successfully in the near future.
The Fifteenth round of boundary negotiations was held in Thimphu, Bhutan on the last week of November 2001. Chinese delegation was led by Vice Foreign Minister, Mr. Wang Yi.. Bhutan’s foreign minister, Lyonpo Jigmi Thinley, led the Bhutanese delegation in the talks, which was the 15th round since it began in 1984. The talk focused on the international boundary between the two countries. The border talks have been alternating between the two capitals, Thimphu and Beijing.
On 04 July 2002, the Bhutanese foreign minister informed the National Assembly of Bhutan that the Chinese claimed to have documentary evidence on the ownership of the disputed tracts of land. When Bhutan asked them to be generous with a small neighbour like Bhutan they said that, as a nation which shared its border with 25 other countries they could not afford to be generous with one particular neighbour. The Chinese government had also identified three aims for the successful resolution of this problem: to understand each other’s interests and come to a decision that would best benefit both countries; to trust each other; to seek solutions that had long-term benefits. So far the biggest success of the Sino-Bhutan discussions had been the signing of an “interim agreement”, the first between the two countries, to build trust and confidence. The agreement, between two independent and sovereign nations which shared mutual respect and understanding, was signed to help solve the border issue in an atmosphere of friendship and understanding. The foreign minister said that, after the agreement was signed, the Chinese government had responded immediately to the problem of the mule track and timber extraction in Pasamlum. The agreement also helped settle the complaints that Tibetans crossing into Bhutan searching for the medicinal herb, Yartsa Guenbub, were given severe and unwarranted punishment at Pasamlum by the Bhutanese border security. The two countries had agreed on most issues until the 14th and 15th meetings. The foreign minister said that the Chinese government, including their prime minister, were unhappy and questioned why Bhutan was raising new issues after many years of boundary talks. “It was agreed, therefore, that we bring in the technical experts to decide which part of the territory was ours and which part was theirs and to depict the claims on a map,” said the foreign minister. “We also agreed to use the common names of the disputed areas to avoid confusion.”
His Majesty the King explained to the members of National Assembly that there were, basically, four disputed areas between Bhutan and China. Starting from Doklam in the west the border goes along the ridges from Gamochen to Batangla, Sinchela, and down to the Amo Chhu. The disputed area in Doklam covered 89 square kilometers. The disputed areas in Sinchulumpa and Gieu covered about 180 sq. km. The boundary line in this area starts from Langmarpo Zam and goes along the stream up to Docherimchang and up the ridge to Gomla from where it goes along the ridge to Pangkala and then down to the Dramana stream. From Dramana the boundary goes up to Zingula and then follows the ridge line down to Gieu Chhu from where it goes to Lungkala. In the middle sector in Pasamlum, the boundary goes along the ridge to Dompala and to Neula. From Neula the boundary follows the ridge line to Kurichhu Tshozam, and then follows the ridge line to Genla from where it goes to Mela and onwards to the east. .
The Sixteenth round of China-Bhutan boundary talks were held in Beijing, China on 12 October, 2002. Bhutanese Foreign Minister Lyonpo Jigme Yoeser Thinley met Chinese Premier Zhu Rongji. Chinese Premier said that China and Bhutan are resolving their boundary issues through mutual understanding and reconciliation and the 16 rounds of talks to date had achieved successes. He said that China-Bhutan relations had developed smoothly in recent years and the border areas had remained peaceful. He further said that China appreciated the Bhutanese government's support on the issues like Taiwan and human rights, and hoped to develop cooperative relations based on the principle of equality, mutual benefit and non-interference in each other's internal affairs. "
16th rounds finished with successful agreements. This was in 2002.
I have yet to see where exactly of the massive "northern Doklam" was disputed. It was never outlined.
"The Fourteenth round of boundary talk was held in Beijing, China in November 2000. Chinese Premier Zhu Rongji said that China and Bhutan are good-neighbourly countries, and the two countries had close contacts in the past, adding that Sino-Bhutanese relations have developed steadily since the two countries signed an agreement on the maintenance of peace and tranquillity in the border area in 1998. .
During this round of talk, Bhutan had extended the claim line of the border beyond what the Chinese government had offered. Bhutan had also proposed technical discussions, using maps, between experts from the two sides. His Majesty the King told the National Assembly of Bhutan on 14 July, 2001 that the proposed extension of the border along the three sectors under discussion were in Doglam, Sinchulumba, and Dramana areas. His Majesty expressed his confidence that, Bhutan being a small country and China being a very large and friendly neighbour, the demarcation of the boundary would be completed successfully in the near future.
The Fifteenth round of boundary negotiations was held in Thimphu, Bhutan on the last week of November 2001. Chinese delegation was led by Vice Foreign Minister, Mr. Wang Yi.. Bhutan’s foreign minister, Lyonpo Jigmi Thinley, led the Bhutanese delegation in the talks, which was the 15th round since it began in 1984. The talk focused on the international boundary between the two countries. The border talks have been alternating between the two capitals, Thimphu and Beijing.
On 04 July 2002, the Bhutanese foreign minister informed the National Assembly of Bhutan that the Chinese claimed to have documentary evidence on the ownership of the disputed tracts of land. When Bhutan asked them to be generous with a small neighbour like Bhutan they said that, as a nation which shared its border with 25 other countries they could not afford to be generous with one particular neighbour. The Chinese government had also identified three aims for the successful resolution of this problem: to understand each other’s interests and come to a decision that would best benefit both countries; to trust each other; to seek solutions that had long-term benefits. So far the biggest success of the Sino-Bhutan discussions had been the signing of an “interim agreement”, the first between the two countries, to build trust and confidence. The agreement, between two independent and sovereign nations which shared mutual respect and understanding, was signed to help solve the border issue in an atmosphere of friendship and understanding. The foreign minister said that, after the agreement was signed, the Chinese government had responded immediately to the problem of the mule track and timber extraction in Pasamlum. The agreement also helped settle the complaints that Tibetans crossing into Bhutan searching for the medicinal herb, Yartsa Guenbub, were given severe and unwarranted punishment at Pasamlum by the Bhutanese border security. The two countries had agreed on most issues until the 14th and 15th meetings. The foreign minister said that the Chinese government, including their prime minister, were unhappy and questioned why Bhutan was raising new issues after many years of boundary talks. “It was agreed, therefore, that we bring in the technical experts to decide which part of the territory was ours and which part was theirs and to depict the claims on a map,” said the foreign minister. “We also agreed to use the common names of the disputed areas to avoid confusion.”
His Majesty the King explained to the members of National Assembly that there were, basically, four disputed areas between Bhutan and China. Starting from Doklam in the west the border goes along the ridges from Gamochen to Batangla, Sinchela, and down to the Amo Chhu. The disputed area in Doklam covered 89 square kilometers. The disputed areas in Sinchulumpa and Gieu covered about 180 sq. km. The boundary line in this area starts from Langmarpo Zam and goes along the stream up to Docherimchang and up the ridge to Gomla from where it goes along the ridge to Pangkala and then down to the Dramana stream. From Dramana the boundary goes up to Zingula and then follows the ridge line down to Gieu Chhu from where it goes to Lungkala. In the middle sector in Pasamlum, the boundary goes along the ridge to Dompala and to Neula. From Neula the boundary follows the ridge line to Kurichhu Tshozam, and then follows the ridge line to Genla from where it goes to Mela and onwards to the east. .
The Sixteenth round of China-Bhutan boundary talks were held in Beijing, China on 12 October, 2002. Bhutanese Foreign Minister Lyonpo Jigme Yoeser Thinley met Chinese Premier Zhu Rongji. Chinese Premier said that China and Bhutan are resolving their boundary issues through mutual understanding and reconciliation and the 16 rounds of talks to date had achieved successes. He said that China-Bhutan relations had developed smoothly in recent years and the border areas had remained peaceful. He further said that China appreciated the Bhutanese government's support on the issues like Taiwan and human rights, and hoped to develop cooperative relations based on the principle of equality, mutual benefit and non-interference in each other's internal affairs. "
16th rounds finished with successful agreements. This was in 2002.
I have yet to see where exactly of the massive "northern Doklam" was disputed. It was never outlined.
So since 2002, dispute resolution met with "successful agreements" between China and Bhutan. China constructed roads between 2002 and 2017 in some parts of northern Doklam where Bhutan did not voice a single objection. Therefore the roads constructed were in Chinese territory.
If that wasn't the case, and China constructed roads in still disputed territory (after 2002 settlements and demarcation which resolved parts of the disputes) why would China ask to construct in disputed and want to keep settling disputes like it has done so successfully with bhutan since 2002?
China Bhutan negotiations clearly worked well but wasn't finished in settling all disputes. As soon as China realised it needed a disputed section, it went to Bhutan to ask for deals. If it were so that China always just built on disputed with Bhutan, then why even ask about one tiny connection when it completed hundreds of kilometers of road in disputed? Clearly the completed roads were in China proper and NOT Bhutan but when it did involve Bhutan, China immediately went to them and talked about it to reach deals like the two parties have in the past.
If that wasn't the case, and China constructed roads in still disputed territory (after 2002 settlements and demarcation which resolved parts of the disputes) why would China ask to construct in disputed and want to keep settling disputes like it has done so successfully with bhutan since 2002?
China Bhutan negotiations clearly worked well but wasn't finished in settling all disputes. As soon as China realised it needed a disputed section, it went to Bhutan to ask for deals. If it were so that China always just built on disputed with Bhutan, then why even ask about one tiny connection when it completed hundreds of kilometers of road in disputed? Clearly the completed roads were in China proper and NOT Bhutan but when it did involve Bhutan, China immediately went to them and talked about it to reach deals like the two parties have in the past.
- Status