Ladakh Flash Point


Jono

Junior Member
Registered Member
to our Indian members here.
your country is in a deep abyss financially, socially and politically, it would do you much good to admit it.
However, I just cannot comprehend why you guys have such a blinding optimism and faith in your country. the only explanation is that you guys are burying your heads in the sand and living in a fantasy and dream world of superpower.
I mean it is good to be patriotic, but only up to a certain degree, and certainly not at the expense of truth and reality. otherwise how are you going to develop your country ?
by not acknowledging and then tackling the roots of the problems in your society, your country can never develop in a meaningful way.
chanting slogans, boasting about your so called superior but dysfunctional democracy, and thumping your chest might make you feel good but these are not going to elevate India to superpower status.
How to compete against China when you have the following hard facts showing a superior China to contend with?
lower infant mortality rate,
higher life expectancy,
higher literacy rate,
much better health care system,
higher nutritional status among the populace,
much better poverty alleviation programs and social welfare system,
stable government, good governance, able to make long term plans for the country such as BRI, RCEP, BIT with Europe etc,
a stable and cohesive society which supports the government,
GDP x6 larger and growing,
complete range of industrialisation, advanced manufacturing, highly advanced electronic industry, 5G etc,
advanced infrastructure and high speed railway system,
indigenous military industrial complex, space industry etc.....

I can go on and on.......
So pray tell me, what are the concrete plans and doable actions India are going to adopt to level the playing field against China somewhat ? As I said, chanting slogans and whipping up a mental fancy are not going to work.
 

Nobonita Barua

Senior Member
Registered Member
lower infant mortality rate,
higher life expectancy,
higher literacy rate,
much better health care system,
higher nutritional status among the populace,
much better poverty alleviation programs and social welfare system,
stable government, good governance, able to make long term plans for the country such as BRI, RCEP, BIT with Europe etc,
a stable and cohesive society which supports the government,
GDP x6 larger and growing,
complete range of industrialisation, advanced manufacturing, highly advanced electronic industry, 5G etc,
advanced infrastructure and high speed railway system,
indigenous military industrial complex, space industry etc.....
I'll bet overwhelming majority of their population will have hard to time pronounce & decode what those word actually mean :rolleyes:

You are forgetting something, they got "freedom & freedom of speech" from the British empire who taught them, the key to prosperity & wealth is free speech & opinion .

So they aint gonna do anything else, they are gonna vote themselves to Shupa pawah 2020 status :rolleyes::rolleyes:
 

siegecrossbow

Brigadier
Staff member
Super Moderator
to our Indian members here.
your country is in a deep abyss financially, socially and politically, it would do you much good to admit it.
However, I just cannot comprehend why you guys have such a blinding optimism and faith in your country. the only explanation is that you guys are burying your heads in the sand and living in a fantasy and dream world of superpower.
I mean it is good to be patriotic, but only up to a certain degree, and certainly not at the expense of truth and reality. otherwise how are you going to develop your country ?
by not acknowledging and then tackling the roots of the problems in your society, your country can never develop in a meaningful way.
chanting slogans, boasting about your so called superior but dysfunctional democracy, and thumping your chest might make you feel good but these are not going to elevate India to superpower status.
How to compete against China when you have the following hard facts showing a superior China to contend with?
lower infant mortality rate,
higher life expectancy,
higher literacy rate,
much better health care system,
higher nutritional status among the populace,
much better poverty alleviation programs and social welfare system,
stable government, good governance, able to make long term plans for the country such as BRI, RCEP, BIT with Europe etc,
a stable and cohesive society which supports the government,
GDP x6 larger and growing,
complete range of industrialisation, advanced manufacturing, highly advanced electronic industry, 5G etc,
advanced infrastructure and high speed railway system,
indigenous military industrial complex, space industry etc.....

I can go on and on.......
So pray tell me, what are the concrete plans and doable actions India are going to adopt to level the playing field against China somewhat ? As I said, chanting slogans and whipping up a mental fancy are not going to work.

Before people kill me for saying this, no matter what you think of Modi as a person or policies (I am no fan, to put it lightly), his heart is at the right place. He is trying to fix the problems pervading the Indian society in the ways that he understand. However, he either tries to do too much too quickly or does something completely stupid that his reforms actually end up hurting the nation instead of helping.
 

localizer

Colonel
Registered Member
Before people kill me for saying this, no matter what you think of Modi as a person or policies (I am no fan, to put it lightly), his heart is at the right place. He is trying to fix the problems pervading the Indian society in the ways that he understand. However, he either tries to do too much too quickly or does something completely stupid that his reforms actually end up hurting the nation instead of helping.
Well they're proud of the fact that 1 person cannot bring down their country, but they should also realize that 1 person cannot fix everything or any if at all.
 

Temstar

Junior Member
Registered Member
to our Indian members here.
your country is in a deep abyss financially, socially and politically, it would do you much good to admit it.
However, I just cannot comprehend why you guys have such a blinding optimism and faith in your country. the only explanation is that you guys are burying your heads in the sand and living in a fantasy and dream world of superpower.
I mean it is good to be patriotic, but only up to a certain degree, and certainly not at the expense of truth and reality. otherwise how are you going to develop your country ?
by not acknowledging and then tackling the roots of the problems in your society, your country can never develop in a meaningful way.
chanting slogans, boasting about your so called superior but dysfunctional democracy, and thumping your chest might make you feel good but these are not going to elevate India to superpower status.
How to compete against China when you have the following hard facts showing a superior China to contend with?
lower infant mortality rate,
higher life expectancy,
higher literacy rate,
much better health care system,
higher nutritional status among the populace,
much better poverty alleviation programs and social welfare system,
stable government, good governance, able to make long term plans for the country such as BRI, RCEP, BIT with Europe etc,
a stable and cohesive society which supports the government,
GDP x6 larger and growing,
complete range of industrialisation, advanced manufacturing, highly advanced electronic industry, 5G etc,
advanced infrastructure and high speed railway system,
indigenous military industrial complex, space industry etc.....

I can go on and on.......
So pray tell me, what are the concrete plans and doable actions India are going to adopt to level the playing field against China somewhat ? As I said, chanting slogans and whipping up a mental fancy are not going to work.
They would have to complete a land reform, this would not be a bloodless process - too many people benefit from landlords enjoying the status quo and are too set in their way to change, thus blood must be shed to complete this process. The Chinese Land Reform was a bloody process too, old ways must die in order for a new world to be created.

You see signs of this already with the protests. Modi isn't even close to attempting a full on land reform yet landlord class is organising protests that are paralysing the country.

And that leads us nicely back to the topic of this thread. The CPC was able to complete the land reform long time ago because of their high esteem among the peasantry established by their fight against Imperial Japan as well as ROC/KMT. Modi might be attempting something similar by stirring up trouble with China. Unfortunately because it's not panning out he does not have sufficient grassroot support to then take on the land lord class and complete a land reform, and thus we arrive at this moment in history.
 

quantumlight

Junior Member
Registered Member
Before people kill me for saying this, no matter what you think of Modi as a person or policies (I am no fan, to put it lightly), his heart is at the right place. He is trying to fix the problems pervading the Indian society in the ways that he understand. However, he either tries to do too much too quickly or does something completely stupid that his reforms actually end up hurting the nation instead of helping.
Modi spurned Xi overtures and went to bed with Trump and jumped on the Quad bandwagon thinking India too can just cheat its way to the top by riding the Merican express without having to pay its dues...

If the best India can do is win 5G infowar propaganda and "make friends" with the West... then I say let them have their fantasy dreams... China should give them some free VR headsets while at it... In a post peak-oil world we dont need a prosperous india in the world, its good for no one, least of not for China...

India #1
 

siegecrossbow

Brigadier
Staff member
Super Moderator
170910to05mzo3gpafo5jq.jpg

Looking at high the Indians are equipped, I think that they were at a disadvantage versus PLA reinforcement.

1) Even though they carried riot shields and had helmets with faceplates, their torsos were unarmored. This left the limbs and vitals relatively unprotected. When fighting at high altitudes, one tires easily and may leave more of the body exposed.
2) They are not wearing water proof clothing. Considering the fact that much of the fighting took place in frigid water and a good portion of it happened at night, hypothermia is a major problem.
3) Their weapons are not standardized. Some carried metal rods but others are carried wooden twigs (sticks if I'm generous). That would do no good against heavily armored PLA skirmishers.
4) In literally none of the videos have I seen any semblance of formation from Indian troops. This is a major problem in hand to hand combat. Having a shield wall allows you to protect your partners and leave very little vulnerabilities. Galwan River valley has many choke points where the conditions favor the faction with disciplined formations.
 

twineedle

Junior Member
Registered Member
Modi spurned Xi overtures and went to bed with Trump and jumped on the Quad bandwagon thinking India too can just cheat its way to the top by riding the Merican express without having to pay its dues...

If the best India can do is win 5G infowar propaganda and "make friends" with the West... then I say let them have their fantasy dreams... China should give them some free VR headsets while at it... In a post peak-oil world we dont need a prosperous india in the world, its good for no one, least of not for China...

India #1
What exactly was XI willing to give India that Trump/U.S couldn't or wouldn't give? And how did Modi "spurn" XI? Modi continued the Indian policy of seperating border issues/belt and road from economic and people-to people ties between India and China, which were very strong until last year. Just because india chooses a different path from what China would prefer does not mean that is inherently anti-China.
 

Temstar

Junior Member
Registered Member
View attachment 69123

Looking at high the Indians are equipped, I think that they were at a disadvantage versus PLA reinforcement.

1) Even though they carried riot shields and had helmets with faceplates, their torsos were unarmored. This left the limbs and vitals relatively unprotected. When fighting at high altitudes, one tires easily and may leave more of the body exposed.
2) They are not wearing water proof clothing. Considering the fact that much of the fighting took place in frigid water and a good portion of it happened at night, hypothermia is a major problem.
3) Their weapons are not standardized. Some carried metal rods but others are carried wooden twigs (sticks if I'm generous). That would do no good against heavily armored PLA skirmishers.
4) In literally none of the videos have I seen any semblance of formation from Indian troops. This is a major problem in hand to hand combat. Having a shield wall allows you to protect your partners and leave very little vulnerabilities. Galwan River valley has many choke points where the conditions favor the faction with disciplined formations.
Well wasn't this gang of 600 hand picked from 22 different battalions? Presumably for their hand to hand combat prowess?

The problem with that sort of mixed unit is lack of unit cohesion and morale. You can in the video the front of the formation is already in action against the PLA while there are heaps of people standing around in the back looking lost. This also went a long way to diminish the initial numerical superiority.
 

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