Ladakh Flash Point


jfy1155

Junior Member
Registered Member
What's the official word on both sides? What I've gathered is it's basically confirmed that India lost three men, one of them a colonel. Indian media claims China suffered casualties with one set of numbers thrown around as 5 killed and 11 injured on PLA side. No small arms involved somehow, suggesting physical fighting and probably very uncontrolled with dozens of participants. PLA's casualties are unconfirmed and what number of fatality and injuries make up those casualties are also unconfirmed by either official words except Indian media suggestions which shall we say have proven to play around with the truth by some offensive margin.

Some Chinese affiliated with official media have suggested "casualties" on PLA side as well. Whether this is to appease India and not make the situation seem that bad for them so both sides can de-escalate.

There is no number confirmation from China but India news media are making up the number.
 

berserk

Junior Member
Registered Member
this will escalate. It is the first time since 70s that someone has died and there is a colonel among the dead. No way IA will let it slide.
actual number will probably rise on our side, since some of our soldiers are seriously injured and I don't think they will survive.
@ougoah @Deino @siegecrossbow
 

schrage musik

Junior Member
Registered Member
India is the creation of british empire without british colonization here is how India look like. There is no India in ancient time but amalgamation of separate states.But there is China since Qin time and every dynasty enlarge Chinese territory The present border was the territory inder Qing dynasty
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China Qing dynasty territory in 1854
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That map of Maratha rule is quite deceptive in many ways. It tries to project the Maratha confederacy as representing the historical Indian empire. This is a stupid claim. The Maratha domination was not a true empire, and consisted of a group of states ruled by different maratha chieftains. Many of these marathas were initially vassals of the Mughals and later revolted along with other local rulers took over vast tracts of Mughal land as the empire declined. The Maratha confederates had strong ties of clanship and their unity allowed them to become a dominant power after the death of emperor Aurangzeb. However, the Marathas remained dominant for hardly ~100 years, from the death of Aurangzeb in 1707 to 1818 when the British finished them off. Even during that time, and right up to 1857 the Mughal empire lived on (although in a rather pitiful shape) and the Mughal Emperor at Delhi continued to be the highest manifestation of sovereignty.

India as a country in its present form is essentially the Mughal Empire minus the territory of Pakistan. India's geographical borders were largest in the time of the Mughal emperor Aurangzeb, who ruled till 1707. India as a country also achieved the zenith of its power under Aurangzeb. According to wiki, "under his reign, India surpassed Qing China to become the world's largest economy and biggest manufacturing power, worth nearly a quarter of global GDP and more than the entirety of Western Europe".
 

berserk

Junior Member
Registered Member
Prepare to be disappointed, because your army will do nothing.

If it had the will to fight, it would've escalated weeks ago.
you should go watch pogo channel. This is a matter between two big powers. You need not to concern yourself with such complex issue.
That map of Maratha rule is quite deceptive in many ways. It tries to project the Maratha confederacy as representing the historical Indian empire. This is a stupid claim. The Maratha domination was not a true empire, and consisted of a group of states ruled by different maratha chieftains. Many of these marathas were initially vassals of the Mughals and later revolted along with other local rulers took over vast tracts of Mughal land as the empire declined. The Maratha confederates had strong ties of clanship and their unity allowed them to become a dominant power after the death of emperor Aurangzeb.
That map is accurate. It was under Peshwa rule at its zenith. Maratha confederacy came much later.
after Maratha captured Delhi...all mughal rulers were just puppet of Marathas until 1803 when British took over Delhi.
. However, the Marathas remained dominant for hardly ~100 years, from the death of Aurangzeb in 1707 to 1818 when the British finished them off.
Mughal rule over india lasted for no more thsn 150 year's by that logic.
. India's geographical borders were largest in the time of the Mughal emperor Aurangzeb, who ruled till 1707. India as a country also achieved the zenith of its power under Aurangzeb
Wrong Mauryan empire was much bigger and your love for him is given little islamist.
 

plawolf

Brigadier
So unprofessional on both sides. I understand not issuing weapons since soldiers on both sides have proven to be hotheads and very emotional and nationalistic but seriously, either have a proper go at it by following orders or stay put. How are they being commanded? Gives me a bad impression of the PLA, mostly the commanding instructions. What are they being told? If the IA comes with fists and sticks, engage brawl but don't give land? If this is the case, at least send MMA fighters. This event has given India some justification of escalating and has bought them a lot of pity support, while making it seem to many that China is attacking with more force than it probably really is. We'll have to wait and see how India plays its hand now.

What utter nonsense. Are you suggesting PLA soldiers not lift a finger to defend themselves if attacked? :rolleyes:

Both sides generally do not issue firearms to troops patrolling the disputed boarder regions because both sides consider that their own territory and the soldiers from the other side trespassers and try to get the other side to withdraw. Normally this is through words and banners or just physically blocking the way of the other side. But that can easily escalate into physical clashes if one side is determined to get to a specific point beyond the line drawn by the other, or if one side found the other further into disputed territory than they are prepared to allow and wants to push them back. It’s just the nature of the dispute that makes physical clashes all but inevitable, and has nothing to do with discipline. As the saying goes, it’s a feature, not a bug.

The deaths are unusual, but hardly outside the realm of possibility when trained fighters clash. Even in highly controlled environments like boxing rings, fighters still die from time to time, never mind bare knuckles fighting with clubs, rocks and other weapons being used frequently.

Pity and pretext for escalation are pretty much meaningless. The only thing that really matters is raw military fight.

That is why India will not escalate, they simply don’t have the military might to challenge China and everyone knows that.

That is why it is a case of play stupid games and win stupid prizes for India to escalate tensions with China in the boarder. China has escalation advantage at pretty much every level.
 

discspinner

Junior Member
Registered Member
This is highly worrisome, although not necessarily surprising. I wonder what the specific details of the incident were, as it was occurring during a 'de-escalation' process. If troops were moving away from one another, how did they end up in the brawl again. Did one side assume the other was going to withdraw simultaneously, and the other side did not withdraw, resulting in a re-engagement?

The problem is that this is a pressure cooker with no release for over 4 decades, whereas there is a constant stream between Pakistan and India. I am not so sure the talks of de-escalation now are more purposed for buying some time for further reinforcing and deployment of troops.
 
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