Ladakh Flash Point


timepass

Brigadier
Nepal parliament unanimously passes bill to redraw political map amid land row with India

The lower house of Nepal’s Parliament on Saturday passed a Bill to amend the country’s constitution to endorse the new map its government issued last month showing within its territory nearly 400 sq. km of areas claimed by India.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

jfy1155

Junior Member
Registered Member
Who’s to blame? The govt that pursued a misguided diplomacy of “informal summits” with China? Or the army, which, despite steadily rising manpower numbers was taken by surprise, just as in Kargil?

Representative Image (Photo Courtesy: social media)
The Indian Parliament in resolutions adopted in 1962 and 1994 had reiterated that Aksai Chin and Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (PoK) were an integral part of India. But practically India had accepted the LOC as the de facto border with Pakistan and was reconciled to the loss of Aksai Chin to China.

But statements made last year by Home Minister Amit Shah, External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar, Defence Minister Rajnath Singh and now the Chief of Defence Services General Bipin Rawat indicated a strategic shift. They all reiterated the resolve to wrest back POK and Aksai Chin. The Home Minister was unambiguous in parliament, the day after abrogating Article 370.

The statements put both Pakistan and China on notice, statements which experts said were not matched by India’s military capabilities. Others questioned the priority. But the die was cast.

China officially released a video clip on the day military level talks between an Indian Lt. General and a Chinese Major General wee going on in Ladakh. It was broadcast on state broadcaster CCTV the same day.

The clip showed thousands of paratroopers, armoured vehicles and equipment being deployed to the border with India in Ladakh. The clip claimed that the deployment took barely a few hours. Significantly, the soldiers and vehicles were transported from Hubei, the province in central China where the coronavirus COVID-19 had spread late last year.

A report in South China Morning Post quoted experts as saying that the clip was meant to send out the signal that the pandemic had done nothing to cripple China’s military ability, that the People’s Liberation Army(PLA) was fully prepared.

Strategic Affairs and military affairs expert Ajai Shukla tweeted after the inconclusive dialogue: China has changed the frontlines in Ladakh, and occupied Indian territory... and New Delhi is talking about “a long haul” and “military and diplomatic engagement!” If so abject was to be the surrender, disband the “mountain strike corps” & remove armoured brigade from Ladakh.

To cover up this craven surrender to Chinese aggression in Ladakh, govt has the nerve to ask journalists not to cover, or write on, the ongoing “dialogue”. This is to allow public opinion to normalise the new situation... which is that China has come in and will not leave!! The writing is on the wall. While the govt continues its smoke and mirrors game of “military and diplomatic dialogue”, China will consolidate and make the new border permanent. At least in 1962 army fought a war and made China pay a cost. This time, it’s an abject surrender.

Who’s to blame? The govt that pursued a misguided diplomacy of “informal summits” with China? Or the army, which, despite steadily rising manpower numbers was taken by surprise, just as in Kargil? Or “anti-national” journalists who exposes this debacle? Answer: Obviously No3.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

plawolf

Brigadier
Indian politicians have always been small minded and lacks vision, resolve or patience, and that translates into Indian strategic thinking, which could only be described as opportunistic.

Indian overall national power and military might to be even in the same league as China. Only western pro-American commentators compare China to India to stoke Indian egos in a transparent bid to get India to fight China, just like they did during their colonists days.

Rather than devise a long term grand strategy to elevate Indian power to a level where it come even think about competing with China, like China did with the Reform and Opening up policy of the 80s to the BRI to today, Indian politicians can only rabble rouse and make wild boasts rather than face reality and face up to the generational challenge of trying to catch up to China.

Just like how it took generations for China to close its gap with America to what it is today, and will likely be another generation at least at present rates before China is comprehensively caught up with the US. It will take just as long for India to catch up to China even with a broad and comprehensive grand strategic plan, which India comprehensively lacks.

Instead Indian leaders are too busy trying to pretend that India has already arrive, that it is somehow its destiny and Devine right that it should not only match China, but surpass it. Again, largely because of dishonest commentary from the west who put tangential ideological factors like ‘democracy’ and ‘freedom’ beyond basic competence and honest hard work, much like how its magical thinking reasoning the west must automatically be better than China at handling pandemics for the same reasons.

Because India lacks a credible overarching long term strategic plan, and the aforementioned near superstitious belief in their ts leaders are incredibly rash in trying to capitalise on any perceived lucky break to the point of gullibility where they get directly by wishful thinking rather than actual lucky breaks.

It saw Trump’s brash hostility towards China and thought it could capitalise on that by jumping on the bandwagon where America would do the ‘heavy lifting’ of fighting China directly, so India can sneak in the back and looted what it could while China was otherwise preoccupied.

It saw COVID19 hit China, and thought it was a good time to start, banking on the Double wishful thinking of China being far worse hit than official figures would suggest, and that America and allies would pile in on India’s side so they could gang up on China.

That is why China dispatched troops from Hebei to face India, and the deafening silence on the matter from the quad speaks all there need to be said about the prospect of western support.

With zero western direct support, facing the full might of the PLA, and with COVID19 spiralling out of control in India to boot, of course India would fold. It could be lunacy not to with the utter crappy hand it decided to bet on.

The critical thing to remember is that China isn’t playing poker with India. Every time it deploys forces to the boarder, it does so with full seriousness and readiness to go hot should the Indians lack the good sense to stand down.

The only difference between now and 62 is that the military edge is comprehensively in China’s favour today, and China is no longer as naive in its diplomacy. There will be no unilateral withdrawal after the dust settles. China will hold what its got and utterly remove any localised geographic advantage India might hold as a means to dissuade India for further mistakes.

If India is foolish enough to force China to war, China will make sure that war teaches another multi-generational lesson to the Indians, like 62 did and continues to loom large in Indian psyches.
 

Mt1701d

Junior Member
Registered Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #25
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

This article is absolutely amazing, it completely highlights the problems of the current Indian mindset and their need to twist everything to their worldview of themselves and is the prefect illustration of @plawolf post. The absolute delusions of reality in this is a sight to behold.
 

Mohsin77

Junior Member
Registered Member
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
It's interesting how the author goes all the way back to the Warring States period to analyze China, but completely ignores the much more recent Korean War. The lessons from the latter are more relevant for his thesis than the former. Classic Indian move: Never let facts get in the way of a good argument.
 

siegecrossbow

Brigadier
Staff member
Super Moderator
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

AHMEDABAD: India is not interested in land of Pakistan or China but wanted peace and amity, Union minister and senior BJP leader
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
said on Sunday.
Addressing virtual 'Jan Samvad' rally of Gujarat BJP from Nagpur in Maharashtra, he said India believed in peace and non-violence and do not want to be strong by becoming an expansionist.
"India never tried to grab land of its
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
like Bhutan and Bangladesh," he added.
The Minister of Road Transport & Highways and MSME also said that Covid-19 crisis will not last long, as a vaccine is on its way soon.

"India do not want land of either Pakistan or China. All India want is peace, amity, love, and (want) to work together (with neighbouring countries)," Gadkari said.
His comments came at a time when India and China are engaged in a stand-off at the Line of Actual Control (LAC) in eastern Ladakh.

Talking about the completion of one year of the second term of the Modi government, Gadkari said its biggest achievement was to bring peace in the country by dealing with matters of internal and external security.

"...Whether it is about almost winning over the Maoist problem or securing the country from Pakistan-sponsored terrorism...There is China on the one side of our border and Pakistan on the other side. We want peace, not violence," he said.

During his speech, the Nagpur MP referred to famous novel "Mrityunjaya" by Marathi novelist
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, saying peace and non-violence can be established by only those who are strong and not weak.

"We should not make India strong by becoming expansionist. We want to make India strong for establishing peace. We never tried to grab land of Bhutan. Our country made
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
the prime minister of Bangladesh after winning the war (with Pakistan in 1971), and our soldiers returned thereafter.

"We took not a single inch of land. We do not want land either of Pakistan or China. All we want is peace, amity, love, and wanted to work together," he said.

Gadkari also said the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
crisis will not last long as scientists in India and abroad have been working to develop a vaccine.

"This crisis is not going to last long. Effort is on in our country to develop a vaccine for coronavirus. Scientists across the world are working in this direction.
 

berserk

Junior Member
Registered Member
He is right we have no claim over any Pakistan or Chinese land. Our claim is to POK and aksai chin which is legal Indian Territory illegally occupied by both china and Pakistan.
 

Hendrik_2000

Brigadier
He is right we have no claim over any Pakistan or Chinese land. Our claim is to POK and aksai chin which is legal Indian Territory illegally occupied by both china and Pakistan.
No it is not the border was drawn onesided by the british indian without Chinese consent and Tibet does not have the authority to sign border agreement as Tibet is not a country but part of china though due to civil war the link was weaked still it suzeranity of China IN other word is figment of imagination of british empire

In the early 20th Century Britain sought to advance its line of control and establish buffer zones around its colony in South Asia. In 1913-1914 representatives of China, Tibet and Britain negotiated a treaty in India: the Simla Convention. Sir Henry McMahon, the foreign secretary of British India at the time, drew up the 550 mile (890 km) McMahon Line as the border between British India and Tibet during the Simla Conference. The so-called McMahon Line, drawn primarily on the highest watershed principle, demarcated what had previously been unclaimed or undefined borders between Britain and Tibet. The McMahon line moved British control substantially northwards. The Tibetan and British representatives at the conference agreed to the line, which ceded Tawang and other Tibetan areas to the imperial British Empire. However the Chinese representative refused to accept the line. Peking claimed territory in this far north down to the border of the plain of Assam.

The border between China and India has never been officially delimited. China's position on the eastern part of the border between the two countries is consistent. Not a single Chinese government recognizes the "illegal" McMahon Line. For China, the McMahon Line, stands as a symbol of imperialist aggression on the country. The so-called "Arunachal Pradesh" dispute is China's most intractable border issue. Because the gap between the positions of China and India is wide, it is difficult for both nations to reach consensus. The area of this disputed region is three times that of Taiwan, six times that of Beijing and ten times that of the Malvenas islands, disputed by Britain and Argentina. It is flat and rich in water and forest resources.
 

Top