Ladakh Flash Point

discspinner said:

If Chinese cared about cricket, I'd give it 10 years, and China would probably win the world cup. You know they say about cricket: 2 people playing 10 players hoping to get lucky.

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The discussion may be going off topic on this thread which is related to the Sino Indian Ladakh standoff.
But 2 cents on cricket. This fine sport has been ruined by rigging, betting, corrupt players, and media management largely through the mafia operating out of India financed by Persian Gulf country business interests. In India the sport generates a vulgar nationalism and each event becomes an occasion for a "test of patriotism " directed at the largest minority community. There is usually violence and anti-minority pogroms after a lost match to the enemy country.

Figaro said:

which would be very out of character of China did not announce them.

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Out of what character? Isn't de-escalation the character?

Best case outcome of this entire spat is that both the Chinese and Indians are forced to develop infrastructure on both sides of the border. Tibet is basically the gateway to India; Lhasa is ridiculously close to the Indian border and it'd make sense if:

#1, currently sea-dominated trade between China and India go through the Tibet route in the future due to significantly improved Chinese road linkages into Tibet.
#2, Tibet ends up becoming a sort of Indian Hong Kong; i.e, Indian expats exploit the capital markets and legal framework (India has rule of law, but its courts are clogged) in Tibet to finance and operate businesses in Uttar Pradesh, Bengal, and Assam.

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Problem is, right now, the Chinese logistics links into Tibet are relatively poor; overland truck routes look like the stuff that's been posted here and on SDF with many winding roads up and down mountains, when nice HSR connections (initially built for military purposes) could make entry into Tibet easy and affordable.

Inst said:

#1, currently sea-dominated trade between China and India go through the Tibet route in the future due to significantly improved Chinese road linkages into Tibet.
#2, Tibet ends up becoming a sort of Indian Hong Kong; i.e, Indian expats exploit the capital markets and legal framework (India has rule of law, but its courts are clogged) in Tibet to finance and operate businesses in Uttar Pradesh, Bengal, and Assam.

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Do they provide free oxygen tanks for you to breathe in this new Lhaza SEZ ?
Tibet is an outland. It will never see development that mirrors the Eastern coast of China. The only way for Tibet to develop is by discovering huge reserves of some natural resource/ minerals. Gold, Uranium, Rare earths etc.

Xsizor said:

Do they provide free oxygen tanks for you to breathe in this new Lhaza SEZ ?
Tibet is an outland. It will never see development that mirrors the Eastern coast of China. The only way for Tibet to develop is by discovering huge reserves of some natural resource/ minerals. Gold, Uranium, Rare earths etc.

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Tibet as a region has two primary advantages:

#1, lots of desert, lots of open land. It's a great location for placing solar panels.
#2, very high elevation, i.e, if the Chinese want to build a mass driver out on the Tibetan Plateau for cheap spaceflight, it's an advantage.

As far as development goes, the main technology that's preventing Tibetan development and population is digging technology. Good digging technology can allow you to build sealed atmospheres underground in Tibet, i.e, the altitude problem is solved courtesy seals and oxygen pumps.

Inst said:

Best case outcome of this entire spat is that both the Chinese and Indians are forced to develop infrastructure on both sides of the border. Tibet is basically the gateway to India; Lhasa is ridiculously close to the Indian border and it'd make sense if:

#1, currently sea-dominated trade between China and India go through the Tibet route in the future due to significantly improved Chinese road linkages into Tibet.
#2, Tibet ends up becoming a sort of Indian Hong Kong; i.e, Indian expats exploit the capital markets and legal framework (India has rule of law, but its courts are clogged) in Tibet to finance and operate businesses in Uttar Pradesh, Bengal, and Assam.

===

Problem is, right now, the Chinese logistics links into Tibet are relatively poor; overland truck routes look like the stuff that's been posted here and on SDF with many winding roads up and down mountains, when nice HSR connections (initially built for military purposes) could make entry into Tibet easy and affordable.

Click to expand...

Inst said:

Best case outcome of this entire spat is that both the Chinese and Indians are forced to develop infrastructure on both sides of the border. Tibet is basically the gateway to India; Lhasa is ridiculously close to the Indian border and it'd make sense if:

#1, currently sea-dominated trade between China and India go through the Tibet route in the future due to significantly improved Chinese road linkages into Tibet.
#2, Tibet ends up becoming a sort of Indian Hong Kong; i.e, Indian expats exploit the capital markets and legal framework (India has rule of law, but its courts are clogged) in Tibet to finance and operate businesses in Uttar Pradesh, Bengal, and Assam.

===

Problem is, right now, the Chinese logistics links into Tibet are relatively poor; overland truck routes look like the stuff that's been posted here and on SDF with many winding roads up and down mountains, when nice HSR connections (initially built for military purposes) could make entry into Tibet easy and affordable.

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Lets be realistic here. Tibet will never be a gateway for exchange goods and people between China and India even if one day China and India will become allies. Not in the next 100 years, even in the next one thousand years or even ten thousand years. Its just a simple fact the Tibetan plateau, averages at 4300 meters. This even excludes the higher altitudes of the Himalayas range which acts as dividing wall between China and India. It takes so much potential energy to lift 1 kilogram of something in there, not to mention the kinetic energy needed to transfer from developed places below the Tibet plateau to developed places in Tibet plateau.

This is the reason why logistics to Tibet is poor over the centuries because of so much energy cost to move something with little return.

Majority of goods are moved on oceans over distances because the potential energy cost is zero.
Its very expensive to move 1 TEU container 4 km up.

China values Tibet for strategic reasons not for economic reasons.

SimaQian said:

China values Tibet for strategic reasons not for economic reasons.

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There has been only one instance in history (1942-1944) where north eastern India featured prominently in transport of goods into China over south Tibet and north western Burma . During World War 2 the Allies attempted to supply China with military assistance flying over ( or rather in between given the limitations of the aircraft then) the "Hump" as the Himalayas were then called. There was. also the Ledo road that stretched all the way from eastern India via Burma into China but that wss disrupted by Japanese attacks. About 650,000 tonnes of military material was sent to China primarily to Kunming. The USAAF who was the primary operator of the "Indo China Ferry" used C-47 Skytrains to negotiate the treacherous flying conditions over the "Hump". Under extreme conditions and using manual labor and hand tools the Chinese resistance made dozens of rudimentary emergency landing strips for the use of the air ferry aircraft.

Bit of a hard pivot to bring the discussion somewhat back on track, but let’s not be too dismissive of using animals for load carrying even in this day and age. Even the mighty west does it.


Although it might not been too long before a robotic alternative is developed, but even then I would find it a little questionable why you need a multi-million dollar robot to do an inferior job as a thousand dollar donkey (do donkeys cost a thousand dollars? I honest don’t know, but that does not really affect the point of how much more a robo mule would cost compared to a real one).

Maybe powered exoskeleton would be worth deploying for troops here, as the added strength would be hugely beneficial for rapid assent of hills; the extra load carrying ability might allow soldiers to carry oxygen tanks to boost troop stamina and combat effectiveness in addition to heavier armour and heavy weapons in places where no vehicle could operate. So the exo suits could act as walking tanks.

Battery life would not be a massive concern given the short distances between rival troops, and exoskeletons would not be general issue, but rather limited to the first wave of assault troops, who would act like stealth fighters of the Air Force and be tasked with kicking down the door (perhaps literally in this case) to allow follow on conventional forces to move in with far fewer casualties.

Bright Sword said:

#102 Check

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It's absurd that Brazil and Bulgaria are in front of China. I am very familiar with Brazil and just recently went to Bulgaria. Both countries are much poor than China and their food in terms of how expensive to locals are way less affordable comparing to China. People made up this list had no idea how people eat in China.