Ladakh Flash Point

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J20 RTS

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Still, that doesn't mean this forum should follow that footstep. I come here for the quality posts, not the shitshow. Please don't bring whatever bad habit you have in other forums here. They are not welcome.
I not a member of that said website. I just go there for the entertainment and the illusion of grandeur of India military (over China) might. When i want factual info of military hardware of the PLA. This is my only port of call. Run by and modded by un-bias people of knowledge and discussed by knowledgable members.
 

ansy1968

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Modi need offer some type of hope for their 1.3 bilion people now battling pandemic and something they can be proud of , be it the truth or otherwise, let it be if they want to think they are world no.1 in military power, let it be if they want to made shot-down wing commander Abhinandan Varthaman their hero. The more distorted the are from the truth, the more they will not want to improve, just like USA. It's actually good for China.
HI Canton_pop

IT shows the leadership quality of XI and PUTIN visa vie MODI and TRUMP. Really feel sorry for INDIA, they need real leadership. MODI had the chance to shine and he blew it.
 

drowingfish

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I know The Times of India cited their source from an Indian news media ANI tweet. I don't know how credible is USNEWS but the other well known news media around the world did not say 35 or 43 Chinese soldiers died.

View attachment 61040

Here is the List of credible news media around the world reporting 20 Indian soldiers dead and nothing about 43 Chinese soldiers dead as Indians like to claim:

AP News, Reuters, Telegraph, New York Times, Los Angeles Times, BBC, CNN, Forbes, NPR News, Wall Street Journal, ABC News, Sky News, The Guardian, Al Jazeera, etc.
no need to take that report too seriously. no army in the world would voluntarily reveal that they are able to listen in to enemy's comms just to compare penis sizes. so any claim of intercepting radio comms, or americans somehow obtaining intel and passing on to india, is guaranteed to be made up because no one would give up that kind of source. and if they do it'd take a lot more than a day for the gov to decide on whether or not to release that info.
 

jfy1155

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India got its Chinese casualty numbers from the US. Was it India that said it then the US quoted India and it became a real number?

" The only numbers floating right now are “43 casualties”
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and “35 casualties” quoted by “US intelligence sources” according to a website called
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. However, neither has any prominent defence reporter confirmed these figures nor have the governments of both countries released an official number on Chinese casualties. "

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Figaro

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India got its Chinese casualty numbers from the US. Was it India that said it then the US quoted India and it became a real number?
The number in question stems from a US News article which claimed that an American intelligence source stated 35 Chinese casualties. The article sounded extremely dubious tbh ...

" The only numbers floating right now are “43 casualties”
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and “35 casualties” quoted by “US intelligence sources” according to a website called
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. However, neither has any prominent defence reporter confirmed these figures nor have the governments of both countries released an official number on Chinese casualties. "

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If the Chinese casualty number was somehow leaked, I can guarantee you all the major news outlets (i.e. Reuters, NYT, Washington ost, Fox) would have picked it up by now ...
 

manqiangrexue

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@berserk
You're calling other people concubines when every person in India considered good-looking enough to be on TV is half British? LOLOL When Asian students compete at test scores, the only thing that Indians are always better at is English, I wonder why... because other people were concubines, right?

So China captured 40+ of your soldiers, then wasn't even mad enough to keep them for negotiations and you think China lost 43 men? Haha, mental filter required.

You don't even know which Indian story to believe or back up because there's so many different ones!

You like "communications intercepts" LOL. I intercepted Indian communications last night talking about making up casualties on China's side to cover up the humiliation and begging the US to help them out since the US got them into this fight in the first place. If you wanna believe in communications intercepts, you can believe in that ;)

Check this out; India losing territory again:
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China believes India wants Aksai Chin back. PLA has likely secured 40-60 sq km in Ladakh
 

AZaz09dude

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Has anyone read this report? It basically argues why India still has an edge over China (unless China has enough missiles to annihilate India bases during first strike)

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Why conventional wisdom giving China the military edge over India may not be true
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Analysis by
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, CNN

Updated 11:23 PM ET, Wed June 17, 2020

Hong Kong (CNN)India and China went to war in 1962 over the
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where at least
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Monday night in a bloody confrontation between the two sides.
A little under six decades ago, one month of combat resulted in a Chinese military victory, with Beijing declaring a cease-fire after securing de facto control of Aksai Chin, an area claimed by both countries. The month-long battle claimed the lives of around 700 Chinese troops and approximately double that on the Indian side.
But the militaries that face off in the Himalayas today are far different from those that fought 58 years ago.
Conventional wisdom has it that China holds a significant military advantage over India, but recent studies from
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and the
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suggest India maintains an edge in high-altitude mountainous environments, such as the one where the 2020 face-off is taking place.



India has about 270 fighters and 68 ground-attack aircraft it could bring to bear in combat with China, according to a study published in March by the Belfer Center.
New Delhi also maintains a string of small air bases near the Chinese border from which it can stage and supply those aircraft, the Belfer study, authored by Frank O'Donnell and Alexander Bollfrass, claimed.
China, by contrast, has 157 fighters and a small fleet of ground-attack drones in the region, the Belfer study said. The People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) uses eight bases in the region, but most of those are civilian airfields at problematic elevations, the study suggests.
"The high altitude of Chinese air bases in Tibet and Xinjiang, plus the generally difficult geographic and weather conditions of the region, means that Chinese fighters are limited to carrying around half their design payload and fuel," the study claims.
Aerial refueling could give the Chinese planes more payload and combat time, but the PLAAF doesn't have enough aerial tankers to get the job done, the study suggests.
The Belfor study also gives the Indian Air Force (IAF), with its Mirage 2000 and Sukhoi Su-30 jets, a qualitative edge in the region, where China fields J-10, J-11 and Su-27 fighters.
The Indian Mirage 2000 and Su-30 jets are all-weather, multi-role aircraft -- while of the Chinese jets, only the J-10 has those abilities.
Meanwhile, India has built up its bases in the region with China in mind, according to an October 2019 report from the Center for a New American Security.
"To weather a potential People's Liberation Army (PLA) attack, India has placed greater emphasis on infrastructure hardening; base resiliency; redundant command, control, and communications systems; and improved air defense," the report claims.
The Belfer study points out that China, facing perceived threats from the United States on its eastern and southern flanks, has strengthened its bases there to the neglect of the Himalayas, leaving at least four PLA airbases vulnerable.
"Indian destruction or temporary incapacitation of some of the four above air bases would further exacerbate these PLAAF operational inflexibilities and weaknesses," it claims.
The Belfer report gives the edge to India's air force in one other area -- experience.
"
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give the current IAF a level of institutional experience in actual networked combat," it says.
Lacking such experience, Chinese pilots may have difficulty thinking for themselves in a dynamic aerial battlefield, according to the Belfer report.
"Recent PLAAF exercises with unscripted scenarios have found that pilots are excessively reliant upon ground control for tactical direction," it says. "This suggests that PLAAF combat proficiency may be significantly weaker than often estimated."
Ground forces
While India has the experience in the air, the CNAS report says it is also hardened on the ground, fighting in places like Kashmir and in skirmishes along its border with Pakistan.

"India is by far the more experienced and battle-hardened party, having fought a series of limited and low-intensity conflicts in its recent past," the CNAS report says. "The PLA, on the other hand, has not experienced the crucible of combat since its conflict with Vietnam in 1979."
That month-long border war, launched by China in response to Vietnam's military intervention in Cambodia, is largely considered a defeat for China. The PLA had trouble making gains against Vietnamese troops that were smaller in number but vastly more experienced after fighting US forces during the Vietnam War.
Yet while there may be a big gap in experience in the Himalayas today, there is reportedly parity in the numbers of ground troops. Belfer estimates there are about 225,000 Indian ground forces in the region, as well as 200,000 to 230,000 Chinese.

The numbers may be misleading, however. Counted among those PLA forces are units assigned to keep down any chance of insurrection in Xinjiang or Tibet, or deal with any potential conflict along China's border with Russia.
Moving them to the Indian front in the event of large-scale hostilities presents a logistical problem, as Indian airstrikes could target high-speed rail lines on the Tibetan plateau or choke points in the mountainous terrain closer to the border.
"By contrast, Indian forces are already largely in position," the report says.

However, the CNAS report adds that those Indian forces operate in rough terrain in steep valleys and can't be easily moved to plug breaches that any Chinese incursion might make. In short, the Indian troops too could be vulnerable to Chinese artillery and missile attacks on choke points in the mountains.
Those attacks could come by Chinese artillery or missiles stationed on the Tibetan plateau, which in some cases look right down on Indian border posts, the CNAS report says.
But the question is whether, in the event of large-scale conflict, China has enough missiles to take out all the targets it would need to hit in India.
The Belfer study cites estimates of a former Indian Air Force officer, who predicts China would need 220 ballistic missiles to knock out one Indian airfield for a day. With only 1,000 to 1,200 missiles available for the task, China would quickly run out of the means to shut down India's airfields, it says.
One area where China may be gaining advantage is technology and new weapons. With a larger defense budget and rapidly modernizing military, Beijing can't be counted out to close any gaps in its forces.
"China's economy is five times the size of India's and Beijing's defense spending far outstrips New Delhi's defense budget by a factor of four to one," said Nishank Motwani, international adviser at the National Center for Dialogue and Progress in Afghanistan. "The power differential between China and India is in Beijing's favor and this asymmetry is only widening."
Chinese state media has recently been heavy on articles and videos of new weaponry being deployed to its Tibetan region for exercises, including the Type 15 light tank and the new 155-millimeter vehicle-mounted howitzer. Both were introduced to the Chinese public at last year's much-hyped National Day military parade in Beijing.
"The weapons were specifically designed with advantages for plateau regions and can play important roles in safeguarding border areas," military
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.
The Chinese outlet on Tuesday --- after the clash with Indian troops the night before -- mentioned the new weapons in
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in the mountainous region.
"These kinds of drills demonstrated the PLA's capability to win a regional, high-elevation conflict in its early stages by decisively eradicating the hostile headquarters and commanders, a PLA veteran who was once deployed in Tibet and asked not to be named told the Global Times," the report said.
Potential conflict with the Russians... 220 ballistic missiles for a single airfield... :p :p :p
 
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Waqar Khan

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Ajay Shukla disclosed that Chinese are at six places,starting from northwest,its Depsang,Hot Spring,Galawan river,Pangong lake and Nakula in Sikkim..will Indian Army be responsible to come out with truth
 

Waqar Khan

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@berserk
You're calling other people concubines when every person in India considered good-looking enough to be on TV is half British? LOLOL When Asian students compete at test scores, the only thing that Indians are always better at is English, I wonder why... because other people were concubines, right?

So China captured 40+ of your soldiers, then wasn't even mad enough to keep them for negotiations and you think China lost 43 men? Haha, mental filter required.

You don't even know which Indian story to believe or back up because there's so many different ones!

You like "communications intercepts" LOL. I intercepted Indian communications last night talking about making up casualties on China's side to cover up the humiliation and begging the US to help them out since the US got them into this fight in the first place. If you wanna believe in communications intercepts, you can believe in that ;)

Check this out; India losing territory again:
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China believes India wants Aksai Chin back. PLA has likely secured 40-60 sq km in Ladakh
Indian military and Air force is in the habit of telling lies,when Pakistan Air Force shot down two IAF fighter jets last year in Feb,IAF came with absurd version of shooting down a PAF F 16 by the same pilot who was captured, Wc AbhiNonDone..same formula is being applied against PLA..Godi media is trying to get comfort from Bollywood dreams..keep dreaming India,there is no Tax on day dreaming
 
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