Ladakh Flash Point

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plawolf

Lieutenant General
If Indians put half the effort they waste on creating fake news and BS propaganda spin into actually bettering their nation like China has done, they wouldn’t haven been reduced to having to cling to obvious fantasies to sate their badly bruised egos.

Reading the drivel they call news is like reading the fantasies of a mental developmentally challenged bi-polar child with ADHD and crippling anger management difficulties. You can’t help feeling pity for them no matter if this is honestly the best lies they could come up with, or if they are actually so far gone as to believe any of this fake news.

For the sake of our sanity, can we please not post any more such trash from India? Their sillies lies are not really meant for the likes of us anyways, but rather for domestic consumption.
 

localizer

Colonel
Registered Member
If Indians put half the effort they waste on creating fake news and BS propaganda spin into actually bettering their nation like China has done, they wouldn’t haven been reduced to having to cling to obvious fantasies to sate their badly bruised egos.

Reading the drivel they call news is like reading the fantasies of a mental developmentally challenged bi-polar child with ADHD and crippling anger management difficulties. You can’t help feeling pity for them no matter if this is honestly the best lies they could come up with, or if they are actually so far gone as to believe any of this fake news.

For the sake of our sanity, can we please not post any more such trash from India? Their sillies lies are not really meant for the likes of us anyways, but rather for domestic consumption.


Why else do you think US forces democracy, religion, and US media on illiterate and superstitious populations.
 

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
I have a genuine question. I thought the Indian and China held border talks like few weeks ago. Why is the timing of death released after the border talk? Did they keep it secret until after border talks? I feel like this is very coordinated and timing of death release... so interesting.
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
I have a genuine question. I thought the Indian and China held border talks like few weeks ago. Why is the timing of death released after the border talk? Did they keep it secret until after border talks? I feel like this is very coordinated and timing of death release... so interesting.

The confrontation happened on June 15th, which is well after the talks.
 

LesAdieux

Junior Member
all of the indians were round-up, there's no escape. later they were released, most alive, some not very alive. there's no point to talk about "casualty" on China's side.

and it's not an ambush. a week ago, photos of badly beaten indian soldiers widely circulated online. so the indians knew what they were doing, they knew the consequence when they crossed the LAC.
 

Figaro

Senior Member
Registered Member
all of the indians were round-up, there's no escape. later they were released, most alive, some not very alive. there's no point to talk about "casualty" on China's side.

and it's not an ambush. a week ago, photos of badly beaten indian soldiers widely circulated online. so the indians knew what they were doing, they knew the consequence when they crossed the LAC.
Calling it an ambush is to make the Indians sound like the victims in this confrontation and the Chinese as the aggressors ... clearly the Indian news media has been working overtime on this one. And now stories of Chinese execution squads hunting down and throwing wounded Indian soldiers into an icy river are being conjured ... really pathetic.
 

SpicySichuan

Senior Member
Registered Member
Has anyone read this report? It basically argues why India still has an edge over China (unless China has enough missiles to annihilate India bases during first strike)

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Why conventional wisdom giving China the military edge over India may not be true
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Analysis by
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, CNN

Updated 11:23 PM ET, Wed June 17, 2020

Hong Kong (CNN)India and China went to war in 1962 over the
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where at least
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Monday night in a bloody confrontation between the two sides.
A little under six decades ago, one month of combat resulted in a Chinese military victory, with Beijing declaring a cease-fire after securing de facto control of Aksai Chin, an area claimed by both countries. The month-long battle claimed the lives of around 700 Chinese troops and approximately double that on the Indian side.
But the militaries that face off in the Himalayas today are far different from those that fought 58 years ago.
Conventional wisdom has it that China holds a significant military advantage over India, but recent studies from
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and the
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suggest India maintains an edge in high-altitude mountainous environments, such as the one where the 2020 face-off is taking place.



India has about 270 fighters and 68 ground-attack aircraft it could bring to bear in combat with China, according to a study published in March by the Belfer Center.
New Delhi also maintains a string of small air bases near the Chinese border from which it can stage and supply those aircraft, the Belfer study, authored by Frank O'Donnell and Alexander Bollfrass, claimed.
China, by contrast, has 157 fighters and a small fleet of ground-attack drones in the region, the Belfer study said. The People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) uses eight bases in the region, but most of those are civilian airfields at problematic elevations, the study suggests.
"The high altitude of Chinese air bases in Tibet and Xinjiang, plus the generally difficult geographic and weather conditions of the region, means that Chinese fighters are limited to carrying around half their design payload and fuel," the study claims.
Aerial refueling could give the Chinese planes more payload and combat time, but the PLAAF doesn't have enough aerial tankers to get the job done, the study suggests.
The Belfor study also gives the Indian Air Force (IAF), with its Mirage 2000 and Sukhoi Su-30 jets, a qualitative edge in the region, where China fields J-10, J-11 and Su-27 fighters.
The Indian Mirage 2000 and Su-30 jets are all-weather, multi-role aircraft -- while of the Chinese jets, only the J-10 has those abilities.
Meanwhile, India has built up its bases in the region with China in mind, according to an October 2019 report from the Center for a New American Security.
"To weather a potential People's Liberation Army (PLA) attack, India has placed greater emphasis on infrastructure hardening; base resiliency; redundant command, control, and communications systems; and improved air defense," the report claims.
The Belfer study points out that China, facing perceived threats from the United States on its eastern and southern flanks, has strengthened its bases there to the neglect of the Himalayas, leaving at least four PLA airbases vulnerable.
"Indian destruction or temporary incapacitation of some of the four above air bases would further exacerbate these PLAAF operational inflexibilities and weaknesses," it claims.
The Belfer report gives the edge to India's air force in one other area -- experience.
"
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give the current IAF a level of institutional experience in actual networked combat," it says.
Lacking such experience, Chinese pilots may have difficulty thinking for themselves in a dynamic aerial battlefield, according to the Belfer report.
"Recent PLAAF exercises with unscripted scenarios have found that pilots are excessively reliant upon ground control for tactical direction," it says. "This suggests that PLAAF combat proficiency may be significantly weaker than often estimated."
Ground forces
While India has the experience in the air, the CNAS report says it is also hardened on the ground, fighting in places like Kashmir and in skirmishes along its border with Pakistan.

"India is by far the more experienced and battle-hardened party, having fought a series of limited and low-intensity conflicts in its recent past," the CNAS report says. "The PLA, on the other hand, has not experienced the crucible of combat since its conflict with Vietnam in 1979."
That month-long border war, launched by China in response to Vietnam's military intervention in Cambodia, is largely considered a defeat for China. The PLA had trouble making gains against Vietnamese troops that were smaller in number but vastly more experienced after fighting US forces during the Vietnam War.
Yet while there may be a big gap in experience in the Himalayas today, there is reportedly parity in the numbers of ground troops. Belfer estimates there are about 225,000 Indian ground forces in the region, as well as 200,000 to 230,000 Chinese.

The numbers may be misleading, however. Counted among those PLA forces are units assigned to keep down any chance of insurrection in Xinjiang or Tibet, or deal with any potential conflict along China's border with Russia.
Moving them to the Indian front in the event of large-scale hostilities presents a logistical problem, as Indian airstrikes could target high-speed rail lines on the Tibetan plateau or choke points in the mountainous terrain closer to the border.
"By contrast, Indian forces are already largely in position," the report says.

However, the CNAS report adds that those Indian forces operate in rough terrain in steep valleys and can't be easily moved to plug breaches that any Chinese incursion might make. In short, the Indian troops too could be vulnerable to Chinese artillery and missile attacks on choke points in the mountains.
Those attacks could come by Chinese artillery or missiles stationed on the Tibetan plateau, which in some cases look right down on Indian border posts, the CNAS report says.
But the question is whether, in the event of large-scale conflict, China has enough missiles to take out all the targets it would need to hit in India.
The Belfer study cites estimates of a former Indian Air Force officer, who predicts China would need 220 ballistic missiles to knock out one Indian airfield for a day. With only 1,000 to 1,200 missiles available for the task, China would quickly run out of the means to shut down India's airfields, it says.
One area where China may be gaining advantage is technology and new weapons. With a larger defense budget and rapidly modernizing military, Beijing can't be counted out to close any gaps in its forces.
"China's economy is five times the size of India's and Beijing's defense spending far outstrips New Delhi's defense budget by a factor of four to one," said Nishank Motwani, international adviser at the National Center for Dialogue and Progress in Afghanistan. "The power differential between China and India is in Beijing's favor and this asymmetry is only widening."
Chinese state media has recently been heavy on articles and videos of new weaponry being deployed to its Tibetan region for exercises, including the Type 15 light tank and the new 155-millimeter vehicle-mounted howitzer. Both were introduced to the Chinese public at last year's much-hyped National Day military parade in Beijing.
"The weapons were specifically designed with advantages for plateau regions and can play important roles in safeguarding border areas," military
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.
The Chinese outlet on Tuesday --- after the clash with Indian troops the night before -- mentioned the new weapons in
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in the mountainous region.
"These kinds of drills demonstrated the PLA's capability to win a regional, high-elevation conflict in its early stages by decisively eradicating the hostile headquarters and commanders, a PLA veteran who was once deployed in Tibet and asked not to be named told the Global Times," the report said.
 
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