Ladakh Flash Point

twineedle · Jan 10, 2022

ougoah said:
What? Lol please you gotta stop making stuff up that suits you. I don't think I was a part of your conversation with Xsizor on that topic. Not sure what you two "agreed" on and anything you two agreed on anyway has no bearing in the real world.

Yeah the photo just like I said was on Indian side. Lol.

Basically Indians took a photo on their side because they felt they needed to since China posted a photo of PLA on China's side over the New Year.

But what I don't get is why supapowan Indians want to present their dumb little photo of Indians posing on Indian side as if that is some victory. Why are you guys so damn insistent on looking like you are victors. Spinning every single thing on this issue.

When PLA captured your soldiers in their many, many dozens in not over a hundred (Hint PLA collected over 40 Indian INSAS rifles and only about 1 in 10 Indians were holding rifles)... you guys denied denied denied and had to believe in fantasy like PLA used Pakistani actors LOL!

Do you at least admit PLA captured so many Indians we can't even count them accurately just from photos alone?

So the denial from Indian side is intense to the point the only video and photo of an instance they have where Indians were beating up a PLA officer, the Indians edited the video from the original just to hide the fact that they were in a massive Indian horde, beating up a PLA officer by himself who only exited his vehicle to engage in talks. Not looking good for India.

The disputed 20% includes the area up to the Galwan river mouth. The Chinese foreign ministry itself applied this when it said Galwan was on its side of the LAC. You cannot keep changing the definition of the disputed 20% when it is convenient.

By now you should know the buffer is only a small part of the disputed areas, at least outside Pangong.

Anyway, as you said it is on the 20% controlled by India.

ougoah · Jan 10, 2022

twineedle said:
The disputed 20% includes the area up to the Galwan river mouth. The Chinese foreign ministry itself applied this when it said Galwan was on its side of the LAC. You cannot keep changing the definition of the disputed 20% when it is convenient.

When have I changed the definition? You are loading your questions with presumptions from nowhere.

Galwan valley has no Indian settlement on it at the moment and likely no Chinese settlement.

twineedle said:
By now you should know the buffer is only a small part of the disputed areas, at least outside Pangong.

Isn't this exactly what I'm saying? China won two known buffer agreements out of India in exchange for China pulling PLA back. I keep saying that both sides have unknown (to us) presence within some other areas of 20%.

twineedle said:
Anyway, as you said it is on the Indian side of the 20%

Yeah and you tried to present it earlier as Indians taking photos on disputed area! lol got ya.

Classic India... doesn't know its ass from its head.

"as shown by the recently released picture" ... ie the one we're talking about with India posing on Indian side which you now admit.

India had no camps in Galwan and has no camps in Galwan.

twineedle · Jan 10, 2022

twineedle said:
India has more. That is just the closest one to the buffer zone.

I think this has already been posted, but here is a map of current positions.

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ougoah said:
This is the 5% I'm referring to. India still has some troops with tents inside but not at buffer zones. If that's the only camp India has inside the 20% China may just allow it since it has no more leverage to use. It prevented India from controlling the 20% and destroyed Indian military moves.

How long they remain in Galwan remains to be seen. I really don't know why you're celebrating this. India went from occupying much more of the 20% to having a few measly campsites and agreeing to two buffers. China still controls the 80% of legacy dispute.

China also clearly currently hasn't accepted that India can have the campsite so even that might change and when it does India lost everything while China secures 80% of legacy dispute. Right now, India only has a few campsites that were not part of buffer agreements while China holds 80% of legacy dispute. Let's not even talk about the tactical side.

Part of a previous exchange we had @ougoah you seemed to agree that area beyond the Galwan mouth was part of the disputed 20,% as the Chinese foreign ministry implied in 2020

twineedle · Jan 10, 2022

ougoah said:
When have I changed the definition? You are loading your questions with presumptions from nowhere.

Galwan valley has no Indian settlement on it at the moment and likely no Chinese settlement.

Isn't this exactly what I'm saying? China won two known buffer agreements out of India in exchange for China pulling PLA back. I keep saying that both sides have unknown (to us) presence within some other areas of 20%.

Yeah and you tried to present it earlier as Indians taking photos on disputed area! lol got ya.

View attachment 81040

Classic India... doesn't know its ass from its head.

"as shown by the recently released picture" ... ie the one we're talking about with India posing on Indian side which you now admit.

India had no camps in Galwan and has no camps in Galwan.

https://imgur.com/eRSsnu1

As I said , India's camps are in the portion of the 20% controlled by India.

Here's a closer look at the camp where the recent photo was taken

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1421117404462059525

Just to clarify, the portion of Galwan that falls within the disputed 20% is roughly 5km past the mouth. About 1-1.5 km of that is buffer. The rest is occupied by India.

jfy1155 · Jan 10, 2022

twineedle said:
The disputed 20% includes the area up to the Galwan river mouth. The Chinese foreign ministry itself applied this when it said Galwan was on its side of the LAC. You cannot keep changing the definition of the disputed 20% when it is convenient.

By now you should know the buffer is only a small part of the disputed areas, at least outside Pangong.

Anyway, as you said it is on the Indian side of the 20%

Your so-called photo evidence was created by an Indian amateur on twitter. He just assume the location is 1.5km. He does not know the exact location the photo was taken.

ougoah · Jan 10, 2022

Real photos officially released by China. Anyone who can and wants to counter them and call China out should do so ... but funny all nations agree these are real and India itself tacitly agrees they are genuine photos. Bhatks cannot face the reality and they are calling them paid actors. LOL the denial with Indians is truly inhuman.

That's a lot of INSAS rifles being collected by Chinese troops.

These don't look like troops who won't be cowed or coerced. They seem pretty surrendered to me despite being the bloody aggressors to begin with as we have proven again and again.

In India, naughty children are told to sit in this exact posture with their fingers holding their ears in a sign of defeat, surrender and recognising their poor behaviour.

And yet isn't it ironic it is Indians who are calling these photos fake while their country recognises their legitimacy, as does the US, UK and so on.

Isn't it ironic Indians are themselves the actual ones who are faking videos and photos??

India hiring northern Indian actors who barely look Chinese to play roles.

Making totally false movies based on Indian bs narratives and lies.

And when India says xyz we should believe it when the facts disprove them and Indian side has a history of 10 or so already debunked lies? lol

twineedle · Jan 10, 2022

ougoah said:
Real photos officially released by China. Anyone who can and wants to counter them and call China out should do so ... but funny all nations agree these are real and India itself tacitly agrees they are genuine photos. Bhatks cannot face the reality and they are calling them paid actors. LOL the denial with Indians is truly inhuman.

View attachment 81041

That's a lot of INSAS rifles being collected by Chinese troops.

View attachment 81042

These don't look like troops who won't be cowed or coerced. They seem pretty surrendered to me despite being the bloody aggressors to begin with as we have proven again and again.

View attachment 81043

In India, naughty children are told to sit in this exact posture with their fingers holding their ears in a sign of defeat, surrender and recognising their poor behaviour.

And yet isn't it ironic it is Indians who are calling these photos fake while their country recognises their legitimacy, as does the US, UK and so on.

Isn't it ironic Indians are themselves the actual ones who are faking videos and photos??

View attachment 81044

India hiring northern Indian actors who barely look Chinese to play roles.

Making totally false movies based on Indian bs narratives and lies.

And when India says xyz we should believe it when the facts disprove them and Indian side has a history of 10 or so already debunked lies? lol

When have I denied those photos? That has nothing to do with present Indian positions in disputed areas of Galwan in 2022

ougoah · Jan 10, 2022

twineedle said:
Part of a previous exchange we had @ougoah you seemed to agree that area beyond the Galwan mouth was part of the disputed 20,% as the Chinese foreign ministry implied in 2020

I think I see the misunderstanding here.

China officially claims further than what it is willing to settle for. Why do we say this, well because China has offered demarcation along basically what is LAC and in parts to the boundary of claims and in other parts through the middle but all of it on the line or further east of what China claims.

This is similar to how India claims Aksai Chin right? And so what you're saying is India's photo is taken on land that China officially claims still but is willing to demarcate where it would be on India.

twineedle · Jan 10, 2022

ougoah said:
I think I see the misunderstanding here.

China officially claims further than what it is willing to settle for. Why do we say this, well because China has offered demarcation along basically what is LAC and in parts to the boundary of claims and in other parts through the middle but all of it on the line or further east of what China claims.

This is similar to how India claims Aksai Chin right? And so what you're saying is India's photo is taken on land that China officially claims still but is willing to demarcate where it would be on India.

Right. My understanding is the disputed 20% is the are between the Colombo line and the Chinese claim line and/or perception of LAC. As you have said, China's goal is to make this area a buffer, which would effectively cut off India.

From my understanding, while China has offered demarcation in the past, that is not going to happen anytime soon. So in the absence of demarcation, China seems to not want Indian presence anywhere within those areas.

twineedle · Jan 10, 2022

ougoah said:
This is similar to how India claims Aksai Chin right? And so what you're saying is India's photo is taken on land that China officially claims still but is willing to demarcate where it would be on India

Right, but as you said most of Aksai was settled in 1962. The remaining unsettled dispute(20%) includes parts of Aksai Chin and Ladakh, like the 5 km of galwan

Ladakh Flash Point

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