JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[Munir]

I think there is a huge difference between what China pays for the Fc1, Pakistan pays for JF17 and export customers will pay for it. It is not that part a comes from country a, part b from country b etc. The JF17 is cheap cause it gets goodies tested in J10. With both nations paid for development they own the rights. I doubt that China will pay what you say mr Indianf.

Since you do not even know that C802 is anti ship I think you should first try to get informed.

BVR on J7. I have read on forums that it is not even close to Bison then what makes you sure they will upgrade J7? They can afford J11, J10, J10B, J20. You come up it costs to much to go for Fc1. Now you even drop to J7 with BVR. Amazing.

 

[Indianfighter]

I think there is a huge difference between what China pays for the Fc1, Pakistan pays for JF17 and export customers will pay for it.

I've heard this argument before and its supposedly because of some "subsidy" the Chinese government hands out for locally made fighters. In any case, since its the government footing the bill and the PLAAF is run by the govt. the costs of $25+ million remain unchanged.

It is not that part a comes from country a, part b from country b etc. The JF17 is cheap cause it gets goodies tested in J10. With both nations paid for development they own the rights. I doubt that China will pay what you say mr Indianf.

Then why was a missile being tested for separation just before a JF-17 crashed in Pakistan ? Since its already been deployed in J-10, J-A, J-B, J-C, why re-test it on an FC-1 ? Why also re-test an RD-93 if its flown on Fulcrums in Russia ?

Now I won't argue on costs any more. The MiG-21 has shown an amazing ability to be upgraded to modern standards and if its cheaper to do that, unlikely that JL-9 or FC-1 can replace it in the distant future.

 

[Indianfighter]

I also don't think that FC-1's export prospects will be hurt in any way even if the PLAAF does not induct it. Its meant for export from the very start and its common knowledge. China also has influence in many countries and can get them to buy the FC-1.

Its a fairly decent fighter, and there have been examples when countries evaluate jets that are not inducted in their home countries. Examples are : IAF evaluating the Gripen-NG (which is just a prototype now) and nations evaluating the JSF (itself on the brink of shutdown in the US).

 

[Munir]

"I've heard this argument before and its supposedly because of some "subsidy" the Chinese government hands out for locally made fighters. In any case, since its the government footing the bill and the PLAAF is run by the govt. the costs of $25+ million remain unchanged."

What do you think airbus or boeing are doing? Rafale? Lca seems to be a project with no endind and the bills are still payed.


"Then why was a missile being tested for separation just before a JF-17 crashed in Pakistan ? Since its already been deployed in J-10, J-A, J-B, J-C, why re-test it on an FC-1 ? Why also re-test an RD-93 if its flown on Fulcrums in Russia ?"

Are you from Mars? Crash relation with what? And just add bvr without testing on the plane because it is already tested on some other plane? I think you even miss basic knowledge. I have no interest in educating you but you seriously need some basic knowledge. Let us move on and not waste our time on this.



Now I won't argue on costs any more. The MiG-21 has shown an amazing ability to be upgraded to modern standards and if its cheaper to do that, unlikely that JL-9 or FC-1 can replace it in the distant future.[/QUOTE]

 

[Indianfighter]

What do you think airbus or boeing are doing? Rafale? Lca seems to be a project with no endind and the bills are still payed.

Any discussions related to LCA are better in the World Military Forum, and not here.

Like I said earlier if you still believe that F-C1 costs are static $15 million since year 2000, I won't bother discussing any further.

Are you from Mars? Crash relation with what? And just add bvr without testing on the plane because it is already tested on some other plane? I think you even miss basic knowledge. I have no interest in educating you but you seriously need some basic knowledge. Let us move on and not waste our time on this.

Wasn't some separation test carried out in an FC-1 in China just a few days before the crash ? Then how can you claim JF-17 doesn't need too many tests, coz its goodies already come tested from the J-10 ?

Any fighter jet needs to undergo its full tests even if its components like radar, engine, missiles are deployed on other fighters before.

 

[i.e.]

Any discussions related to LCA are better in the World Military Forum, and not here.

Like I said earlier if you still believe that F-C1 costs are static $15 million since year 2000, I won't bother discussing any further.

Wasn't some separation test carried out in an FC-1 in China just a few days before the crash ? Then how can you claim JF-17 doesn't need too many tests, coz its goodies already come tested from the J-10 ?

Any fighter jet needs to undergo its full tests even if its components like radar, engine, missiles are deployed on other fighters before.

Cost has prob gone down a bit from 15 mil, given the production line fixed cost are in and scrap rate for components will go down once production "settles down".

how many Mig-21s did Indian Airforce crash last year?

 

[A.Man]

By the way, unrelated topic regarding the costs in China:

2000 a PLA divisional rank officer retirement pension was around 3000 RMB ($360) a month.
2011 is 12000 RMB ($1900), plus free housing & medicare & usage of transportions & additional a lot more for life;

2000 a house maid got, in big cities, paid average 800 RMB ($95) a month.
2011 is 3000 RMB ($475) plus board, food, all expanses and a private room with a big scween TV.

The above numbers are "After Tax" Net Pay or the so-called disposal income.

 

[Munir]

Any discussions related to LCA are better in the World Military Forum, and not here.

Like I said earlier if you still believe that F-C1 costs are static $15 million since year 2000, I won't bother discussing any further.

Wasn't some separation test carried out in an FC-1 in China just a few days before the crash ? Then how can you claim JF-17 doesn't need too many tests, coz its goodies already come tested from the J-10 ?

Any fighter jet needs to undergo its full tests even if its components like radar, engine, missiles are deployed on other fighters before.

What has the test to do with test in China? I knew the pilot so I am curious about the correlation you see.

Thank you for stopping the financial part. I see no reason to go further then that.

If you do not get the testing part. Ask why Gripen needed so many tests with AMRAAM. Let put it simple. The SD10 tested in several ground tests. Then when all the parts work as they should it is tested on a plane. It should work together with all the systems and the effects of attaching, handing in air or launching parameters are tested and defined. Assuming that it is tested on J10 does not mean it will act the same way on JF17.

Just read that J7 are going to pension in PLAAF. You had that story wrong...

 

[SteelBird]

By the way, unrelated topic regarding the costs in China:

2000 a PLA divisional rank officer retirement pension was around 3000 RMB ($360) a month.
2011 is 12000 RMB ($1900), plus free housing & medicare & usage of transportions & additional a lot more for life;

2000 a house maid got, in big cities, paid average 800 RMB ($95) a month.
2011 is 3000 RMB ($475) plus board, food, all expanses and a private room with a big scween TV.

The above numbers are "After Tax" Net Pay or the so-called disposal income.

I doubt the figures you gave out above.

 

[A.Man]

I doubt the figures you gave out above.

China Military Base Pay,

Off-Topic

中国人民解放军军人工资主要有军官工资、文职干部工资、官下资3个标准系列。

　　（1）军官实行职务、军衔、基础、军龄“四结构”工资制；

　　（2）文职干部实行职务、级别、基础、军龄“四结构”工资制；

　　（3）士官实行军衔等级、基础、军龄“三结构”工资制；另外还有编外干部工资和离退休干部工资等。


以陆军为例

1、尉官：排职到连职约4500元至4800元左右人民币，较现时3500元至3800元左右增加1000多元左右，调整后的工资将有4500元至4800元左右人民币。

2、校官：营职到师职约5200元至7800元左右人民币，较现时4200元至7800元左右增加1000多元左右，调整后的工资将有5200元至8800元左右人民币。




3、将官：军职到正兵团职8800元至22000元左右人民币，较现时7800元左右至21000元左右增加1000多元左右，调整后的工资将有8800元至22000元左右人民币。


A、职务工资。

B、军衔工资。

1、尉官：排职到连职约4500元至4800元左右人民币，较现时3500元至3800元左右增加1000多元左右，调整后的工资将有4500元至4800元左右人民币。

　　2、校官：营职到师职约5200元至7800元左右人民币，较现时4200元至7800元左右增加1000多元左右，调整后的工资将有5200元至8800元左右人民币。

　　3、将官：军职到正兵团职8800元至22000元左右人民币，较现时7800元左右至21000元左右增加1000多元左右，调整后的工资将有8800元至22000元左右人民币。


校官的军衔工资是尉官的1。1至1。25倍，同等军官，海军是陆军的1。07倍，空军是陆军的1。15倍，二炮是陆军的1。2倍。士兵津贴由原来每月380元左右增至480元左右；士官工资一律加40％。文职军官每级增加800至2000元不等级别补贴。

C、基础工资。

D、军龄工资。

上次部队涨工资是06年7月1日，大概从1300多涨到2800左右，这次涨工资比较夸张，从2800多涨到5000左右，而且从08年7月开始补发，也就是说可以补9个月的涨幅

　　现在的军官待遇大概就是23、24刚毕业的军官可以拿4500，28岁左右的5500，32岁左右的6000，38岁左右的6500多，40岁左右的7200，均是税后