JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[noone536]

i think people are forgetting that the j7 can replace the q5 has a close air support...

 

[siegecrossbow]

i think people are forgetting that the j7 can replace the q5 has a close air support...

I seriously doubt that the J-7 could offer the same low speed performance as the Q-5.

 

[Indianfighter]

The issue is operational costs. An FC-1 is more expensive to operate for just area defence than a J-7 (or even a JL-9). It has better payload capacity, range and avionics than J-7.

I stick my neck out and say that in the future, to save on operational costs the USAF will procure jets like Tejas and probably a refurbished Ching-Kuo to do routine patrolling in Iraq and Afghanistan. It will achieve the same purpose and save millions in costs.

 

[delft]

The issue is operational costs. An FC-1 is more expensive to operate for just area defence than a J-7 (or even a JL-9). It has better payload capacity, range and avionics than J-7.

I stick my neck out and say that in the future, to save on operational costs the USAF will procure jets like Tejas and probably a refurbished Ching-Kuo to do routine patrolling in Iraq and Afghanistan. It will achieve the same purpose and save millions in costs.

These aircraft are not designed or build in the US so will not be bought or leased by the Pentagon. That would take money away from US producers. And for US producers to build simple and cheap aircraft is also unthinkable, as that would reduce dividends to their shareholders.

 

[jawad]

I'm sure J-7s are also equipped with decent HMS and BVR (IAF MiG-21s sure are), and besides like I said earlier, FC-1s are not exactly meant only for area defence, whereas J-7s are fit for that role.

So J-7s can play that low-end role better than the FC-1 in the PLAAF.

If you can quote the longest range at which Indian Mig-21 fired its R-77? as it can make it easier for member like me to know the real life effectiveness of upgrading a J-7/F-7/mig-21 type of aircraft with BVR capability

The only information i was able to fin was

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A subsonic target was destroyed in a direct hit by the RVV-AE, which was fitted with a telemetry package in place of the warhead. The launch was made at 12km (6nm) in a head-on engagement. The target was at 20,000ft (6,100m) and the fighter at 13,000ft.

I feel that Both JF-17/FC-1 and J-7 offers completely different level of capabilities

Irrespective of the Fact that PLAAF may or may not decide to purchase the FC-1, one has to admit that it is already offering range of capabilities like LS-6, LT-2, LT-3, YJ-83 and SD-10/PL12, PL-9/8/10 which puts it much higher then the Q-5 or J7

 

[Munir]

The issue is operational costs. An FC-1 is more expensive to operate for just area defence than a J-7 (or even a JL-9). It has better payload capacity, range and avionics than J-7.

I stick my neck out and say that in the future, to save on operational costs the USAF will procure jets like Tejas and probably a refurbished Ching-Kuo to do routine patrolling in Iraq and Afghanistan. It will achieve the same purpose and save millions in costs.

If cost would be a serious issue then the PLAAF would not go for so many programs and planes. Chine is leading world economy and a worldpower. If you want to explain that they have to select between J7 (max 5 million) or Fc1 (max 8-15 million) then I have to return a smile. These guys are busy with everything and the most expensive. A few hundred Fc1 are a big laugh for them. It is all about having internal parts and not depending on others. as soon as that problem is fixed there might be orders. But they hardly will count the coins cause if not Fc1 then a better and more expensive J10 will be produced in large numbers.

The operational cost of Fc1 is marginal. We have seen presentation of the designer and I do not think that is can be a serious issue. I would be more interested what the difference is with a J10. A few bucks more for a better plane? Then there is obvious no choice.

 

[Munir]

If you can quote the longest range at which Indian Mig-21 fired its R-77? as it can make it easier for member like me to know the real life effectiveness of upgrading a J-7/F-7/mig-21 type of aircraft with BVR capability

The only information i was able to fin was


I feel that Both JF-17/FC-1 and J-7 offers completely different level of capabilities

Irrespective of the Fact that PLAAF may or may not decide to purchase the FC-1, one has to admit that it is already offering range of capabilities like LS-6, LT-2, LT-3, YJ-83 and SD-10/PL12, PL-9/8/10 which puts it much higher then the Q-5 or J7

Comparing J7 with Fc1 is a mistake.It is a whole new generation. I do not hear anyone say that F22 is comparable with F16. That gap is probably clear but all those differences between a WVR short range air defence and Fc1 are just pushed away. Does J7 have anti radar missile? Anti ship? So we already have a sea difference. The BVR. The ECM. The links/digital cockpit/IFR/HMS etc etc

 

[Indianfighter]

The USAF can import the kits to assemble them under licence, and install their own systems, weapons from ground-up. (lets take this to the World Military Forum).

jawad, those figures are not available to my knowledge, but all IAF jets shall be integrated with AWACs.

The point is that as long as the PLAAF has plans to keep about 700(?) J-7s in its fleet, the FC-1 has no place in the PLAAF. We don't even know whether the J-7s will be retired if at all. So, I guess any speculation about FC-1s in PLAAF is of no use.

 

[Indianfighter]

If cost would be a serious issue then the PLAAF would not go for so many programs and planes. Chine is leading world economy and a worldpower. If you want to explain that they have to select between J7 (max 5 million) or Fc1 (max 8-15 million) then I have to return a smile. These guys are busy with everything and the most expensive. A few hundred Fc1 are a big laugh for them. It is all about having internal parts and not depending on others. as soon as that problem is fixed there might be orders. But they hardly will count the coins cause if not Fc1 then a better and more expensive J10 will be produced in large numbers.

As far as procurement costs are concerned, I have argued long time back that the figure of $15million for the FC-1 is from the year 2000. Today, it should be something like $25-27 million per unit.

For a few hundred FC-1s, it will make a significant difference.

The operational cost of Fc1 is marginal. We have seen presentation of the designer and I do not think that is can be a serious issue. I would be more interested what the difference is with a J10. A few bucks more for a better plane? Then there is obvious no choice.

For an FC-1 whose empty-weight is the same as a Gripen-C, with nearly the same armament and fuel, you say there is little difference in operational costs vis-a-vis J-7 ? I doubt it. There should be a big difference.

Comparing J7 with Fc1 is a mistake.It is a whole new generation. .... Does J7 have anti radar missile? Anti ship? So we already have a sea difference. The BVR. The ECM. The links/digital cockpit/IFR/HMS etc etc

FC-1 has an anti-ship missile ? Besides, it shouldn't be a great deal if PLAAF decides to upgrade its J-7s with BVR and HMS. It has been done in other parts of the world and it'd be cheaper than procuring whole FC-1s.

 

[asif iqbal]

As far as procurement costs are concerned, I have argued long time back that the figure of $15million for the FC-1 is from the year 2000. Today, it should be something like $25-27 million per unit.

For a few hundred FC-1s, it will make a significant difference.


For an FC-1 whose empty-weight is the same as a Gripen-C, with nearly the same armament and fuel, you say there is little difference in operational costs vis-a-vis J-7 ? I doubt it. There should be a big difference.


FC-1 has an anti-ship missile ? Besides, it shouldn't be a great deal if PLAAF decides to upgrade its J-7s with BVR and HMS. It has been done in other parts of the world and it'd be cheaper than procuring whole FC-1s.

excuse me but are u comparing J7 with JF17??

do you know what capablitys JF17 has? do u know what Block II will have? do u know what even Block III will have?

today Serbia even showeed interest in JF17 and

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JF17 has the worlds aviation eyes on it

datalinks, AWACS, mid-air refueling, anti-ship missiles, advanced targeting and self protection suites, cock-pit and advanced man and machine interface put JF17 at forefront of fighter production