J31 program is military version of Huawei, most griping in US minds.


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jimmyjames30x30

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thought the USSR had left Dalian earlier in 1950 (
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) I mean before
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Lushunkou is a part of Dalian, it was known as Port Arthur. The Soviet Russians rented Lushunkou until 1950, officially handed them back in 1950. But the Soviet Red Army troops remained there until 1955.
 
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jimmyjames30x30

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thought the USSR had left Dalian earlier in 1950 (
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) I mean before
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The detail of history is a little different from what people writes. Quoting from (
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):

中华人民共和国时期
1950年2月,中国政府和苏联政府签订《
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》的同日,签订《
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》。协议约定在1952年底撤出旅顺口,而随着
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爆发,地区局势日趋紧张。当时,
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尚无力量守卫旅顺港。1952年9月15日,中苏政府交换《关于延长共同使用中国旅顺口海军基地期限的换文》。1954年,苏联领导人
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决定将旅顺口交还中国。1955年初开始交接,中国方面,由此设立
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。5月,两国完成交接,月底12万苏军撤离
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1960年前,属
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。1960年1月18日,
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撤消
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,设旅顺口区
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。旅大市改为
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后,仍属之。当时有三条公路连接大连市。

Sourced from Wikipedia.
 
The detail of history is a little different from what people writes. Quoting from (
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):

中华人民共和国时期
1950年2月,中国政府和苏联政府签订《
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
》的同日,签订《
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
》。协议约定在1952年底撤出旅顺口,而随着
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爆发,地区局势日趋紧张。当时,
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
尚无力量守卫旅顺港。1952年9月15日,中苏政府交换《关于延长共同使用中国旅顺口海军基地期限的换文》。1954年,苏联领导人
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决定将旅顺口交还中国。1955年初开始交接,中国方面,由此设立
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。5月,两国完成交接,月底12万苏军撤离
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1960年前,属
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。1960年1月18日,
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撤消
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,设旅顺口区
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。旅大市改为
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后,仍属之。当时有三条公路连接大连市。

Sourced from Wikipedia.
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jimmyjames30x30

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Sorry, I should have translated to English on my post. Google translate is good enough for this short paragraph, as it was written in very formal Chinese.

here we go, google translated:

"People's Republic of China
In February 1950, the Chinese government and the Soviet government signed the "Sino-Soviet Treaty of Friendship, Alliance and Mutual Assistance" on the same day, and signed the "Agreement on China's Changchun Railway, Lushunkou and Dalian." The agreement promised to withdraw from Lushunkou at the end of 1952, and as the Korean War broke out, the situation in the region became increasingly tense. At that time, the Chinese Navy did not have the power to guard Lushun Port. On September 15, 1952, the Chinese and Soviet governments exchanged the "Exchange of Letters on the Extension of the Term of the Joint Use of China's Lushunkou Naval Base." In 1954, Soviet leader Khrushchev decided to return Lushunkou to China. At the beginning of 1955, the handover began. In China, the Navy’s Lushun Base was established. In May, the two countries completed the handover, and at the end of the month, 120,000 Soviet troops withdrew [3].

Before 1960, it was a big city. On January 18, 1960, the State Council of China withdrew Lushun City and set up Lushunkou District [4]. After the city of Dalian was changed to Dalian, it still belongs to it. At that time, there were three roads connecting Dalian."
 
so according to you
#69 jimmyjames30x30, 45 minutes ago
My fourth reason is the most profound:

Korean war gave China a new beginning in Sino-Soviet relations as well as forecasting a future Sino-USA relations.

The Soviet Red Army liberated Manchuria. The also stationed there until the end of the Korean War. It is clear what the USSR want: they don't want a ROC that is the ally of the USA to be so close to their underpopulated Far East. This is why why they turn against their long term ally the ROC (Chiang Kai Shek's son married a Soviet woman), and started taking the CCP's side.

Without the Korean War, there is no way, neither by force nor by reason, can the CCP get the Soviet Red Army off of Chinese soil. The Korean War is characterized by its ethnic-nationalistic undertone. It is NEVER presented to the PRC public as an ideological war. It was always known as a nationalistic war to Chinese.

This is alarming and deterring for the USSR, as the Chinese performances in the Korean War make them realize that Chinese can bite very hard and they are very ethnic - nationalistic. They weren't fighting fanatically for communism, they were fanatic for China. This is what prompts the Soviets to withdraw from Dalian, forever ending their physical presence in China. After that war, the USSR can not afford to risk staying in Dalian and provoking Chinese nationalism, as the CCP has demonstrated that they will kowtow to nationalism over ideological allegiance to secure the regime.

Without the Korean War, the CCP would have little excuse, as well as little bragging point to demand a Soviet Withdrawal.

Only with the withdrawal of the Red Army, could the PRC gain the geopolitical independence to contemplate a future diplomatic relation with the USA and the West.
the USSR wouldn't have withdrawn troops from Dalian area even in 1955
#73 jimmyjames30x30, 19 minutes ago
According that source material, The amount of Soviet Red Army Troop that pulled out from Lushunkou, Dalian at the end of May, 1955 amount to some 120,000 men strong.
if China hadn't entered the Korean War?
 

vesicles

Colonel
Sorry, I should have translated to English on my post. Google translate is good enough for this short paragraph, as it was written in very formal Chinese.

here we go, google translated:

"People's Republic of China
In February 1950, the Chinese government and the Soviet government signed the "Sino-Soviet Treaty of Friendship, Alliance and Mutual Assistance" on the same day, and signed the "Agreement on China's Changchun Railway, Lushunkou and Dalian." The agreement promised to withdraw from Lushunkou at the end of 1952, and as the Korean War broke out, the situation in the region became increasingly tense. At that time, the Chinese Navy did not have the power to guard Lushun Port. On September 15, 1952, the Chinese and Soviet governments exchanged the "Exchange of Letters on the Extension of the Term of the Joint Use of China's Lushunkou Naval Base." In 1954, Soviet leader Khrushchev decided to return Lushunkou to China. At the beginning of 1955, the handover began. In China, the Navy’s Lushun Base was established. In May, the two countries completed the handover, and at the end of the month, 120,000 Soviet troops withdrew [3].

Before 1960, it was a big city. On January 18, 1960, the State Council of China withdrew Lushun City and set up Lushunkou District [4]. After the city of Dalian was changed to Dalian, it still belongs to it. At that time, there were three roads connecting Dalian."
I honestly don't think the Korean War had anything to do with the Soviets' pullout from Lushun. At the time even after the Korean War, China was still heavily dependent on the Soviets. The Soviets sent many experts, advisors, materials to China and they stayed in China until the mid/late 1960's. Before their relationship went sour in the mid/late 1960's, the Soviets helped the Chinese set up factories, facilities of every kind imaginable in China. If the Soviets wanted to stay in Lushun, they had much leverage in their hands to force the Chinese to accept that, Korean War or not.

Additionally, the Chinese also got help from the Soviets during the Korean War. Mainly, the Soviet air force, as well as land weapon systems, ammo and other supplies. If anything, once the Korean War was done, the Soviets were in a good position to demand for some payment. The pullout from Lushun was an independent event that coincided with the end of the war.
 

vesicles

Colonel
and I am very confused of the title of this thread. What does the J31 have anything to do with Huawei? The J31 is a domestic plane that has been kept in the back burner by the Chinese govn't. While Huawei has been leading the 5G technology and a symbol of China's technological advancement, the J31 has been a boring program that has gained little interests from anyone. Which aspect of the J31 is considered as revolutionary and world-leading? I can think of none... Does it represent the best of China's fighter plane design? Absolutely not. The most attractive thing about the J31 seems to be that it's cheap.

Even IF the J31 is as good as the J-20 and the F22, it is a technology 20 years behind the leader of the same technology. How does that compare with Huawei? Keep in mind that Huawei is ahead of everyone else in the world by at least 2-3 years.
 

jimmyjames30x30

Junior Member
Registered Member
I honestly don't think the Korean War had anything to do with the Soviets' pullout from Lushun. At the time even after the Korean War, China was still heavily dependent on the Soviets. The Soviets sent many experts, advisors, materials to China and they stayed in China until the mid/late 1960's. Before their relationship went sour in the mid/late 1960's, the Soviets helped the Chinese set up factories, facilities of every kind imaginable in China. If the Soviets wanted to stay in Lushun, they had much leverage in their hands to force the Chinese to accept that, Korean War or not.

Additionally, the Chinese also got help from the Soviets during the Korean War. Mainly, the Soviet air force, as well as land weapon systems, ammo and other supplies. If anything, once the Korean War was done, the Soviets were in a good position to demand for some payment. The pullout from Lushun was an independent event that coincided with the end of the war.
This is not the first time I communicated my beliefs about the causality between the Korean War and the Lushun pull out with other people. You do have a good point, and I have heard feedbacks along the same lines from other people before, which means that you are not alone in your objection to my belief.

But I still hold to my belief.
 
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