Re: New Generation Fighter
Thnx! Would you mind helping out with the translation? The task is a lot bigger than I first thought.
Thnx! Would you mind helping out with the translation? The task is a lot bigger than I first thought.
J-20... The New Generation Fighter
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Re: New Generation Fighter
I was going to translate it last night actually, but have been relatively busy and my vocabulary is weak so it takes some time ^^. I can probably start on it later tonight/tomorrow, so if you're not done by then I'll take care of the rest?
I was going to translate it last night actually, but have been relatively busy and my vocabulary is weak so it takes some time ^^. I can probably start on it later tonight/tomorrow, so if you're not done by then I'll take care of the rest?
Re: New Generation Fighter
Sounds like a good plan!
Before I start the second part of the translation I would like other forum members to take note that the description of the J-XX produced by CAC is very similar to the picture shown by 70092. Although the story sounds very fanboy-ish there might actually be some truth to it.
Translation Part 2:
huzhigeng: The large Chinese passenger plane is a national effort. The plan and flight control were developed by 611 while the structure was a cooperative effort between 601 and 611 (This is because 601 is more experienced dealing with twin-engined fighters (*he also mentioned something about "heavy four", as in heavy fourth generation (fifth gen) jet and I don't know how to translate it). The plane's structure was primarily designed by 601 since Dongbei (Manchurian province of China where Shengyang is located) has the upperhand when it comes to structural design, composite materials, and titanium alloys. Last time 601 was really busy posting pictures (more stuff on the "heavy four". I don't think it is very important).
枫兰: Is Dongbei's fourth generation (fifth gen) plane carrier-capable? How many fourth generation (fith gen) planes does China need? Are we going to get light-medium, heavy, and carrier capable fifth generation fighters?
huzhigeng: The picture recently released by Dongbei is that of a Airforce Fighter. The navy won't get their fighters this fast.
别离钩 ：huzhigeng, you said that the head, the front of the plane, and the models of the two planes (SAC and CAC fighters) have major differences. Are the planes' rears similar to one another?
huzhigeng: 611 usually likes to use their planes to test 4th gen (fifth generation) technology... J-10 and JF-17 are good examples. However the LERX on this plane are different from those of the sample plane. Fourth generation (fifth gen) fighters have large, sharp, protruding LERX not unlike those found on the JF-17 and Super Hornet. The engine nozzle has circular symmetry about the axis and could produce 360 degree *矢推，不是二元的。
青之六: The plane under construction should be the 01 prototype, right? According to J-xx fanatic 疯狗* the scaled model was made years ago!
huzhigeng: Right. The scaled-model has been made years ago but who dares to go in 132 and snap a picture? Can anyone get in? They won't just park the model on the lawn and let your snap pictures! They really are producing the 01 prototype. It looks very strange and "Sci-Fi", especially from the front.
klonoa1121：Let me go off topic for a sec. huzhigeng, do you know anything about J10-21?
huzhigeng: All I know is that J-10B is not the last J-10 variant.
别离钩: huzhigeng, who is the chief designer of the fourth gen (fifth gen) fighter? Is it 宋文骢 (designer of J-10), 杨伟, or the new comer - 季晓光?
huzhigeng: 伟哥 (Chinese phrase for Viagra
. No, its 杨伟). However 宋文骢 is an important contributer. He laid the foundation for the whole project. Finally the J-xx won't be possible without the hard work and dedication of the entire 11-th regiment.
cyjsk：Hey boss (huzhigeng), what did you mean by adjustable DSI? Could the little "bumps" really move? If that's true then the J-xx is "Sci-Fi" indeed!
huzhigeng: Of course you can't adjust the bumps! However the intakes are adjustable. This way you can raise the maximum velocity. Killing two birds with one stone!
刀锋2009: huzhigeng, what is your opinion on 6th generation fighters?
huzhigeng: Americans are talking about it and we'll know when they are ready. We are talking about 6th gen fighters as well and our predictions are probably the same as their's. There should be two types of 6th gen. fighters - manned and unmanned.
freedr: Hey huzhigeng why does the air force need two Fourth generation (fifth gen) fighters? Is it because the air force needs high-lo combinations or is it because the 611 model is just an experimental plane or a plane not intended for mass production?
huzhigeng: What? A 611 experimental plane? Chengdu's heavy fourth gen. (fifth gen) fighter is similar to the F-22 and not many will be produced. I predict that only 300 will be produced. This is because Chengdu's plane is a heavy fighter and a heavy fighter emphasizes quality over quantity. The reverse is true for Dongbei's planes. I've never heard of countries that produce more heavy fighters than medium-light fighters. Are there more F-22s than F-35s? :rofl:
刀锋2009: Don't talk big when there are still problems with indigenious engines!
huzhigeng: The prototype won't use the WS-15. No one ever test new engines on their new fighters! The YF-22 didn't use new engines and neither did Russia's fighter (PAK-FA). We probably won't use new engines either. Our engines won't be slow (so don't worry)!
jcyjsk: Thank you huzhigeng! You said that some Russians are working on the Fourth Gen. (Fifth gen) fighter. Aren't you worried that they might leak information (look whose harking :rofl.
huzhigeng: There have been Russians working at 611 since the 90s! The Russian engineers at 611 are primarily airframe/structural experts. We are paying them well right now :rofl:.
gotowork: hey huzhigeng! Do we classify Fourth gen (Fifth gen) fighters the same way as the Americans (the 4S) or are we developing stealth fighters with "Chinese characteristics"?
huzhigeng: The characteristics of fourth generation (fifth gen) fighters are stealth, supermanueverability, supercruise, and AESA radars. Think about it! Those are the standards! Do you seriously think that our planes will be inferior? Our planes, however, emphasize supermanueverability and supercruise (that's why our 4th gen (5th gen) fighters are long and skinny). The 611 fighter will incorporate the advantages of American and Russian 5th generation fighters, use canards, large, sharp LERX, and adjustable DSI. Don't you think this plane is unique?
Sounds like a good plan!
Before I start the second part of the translation I would like other forum members to take note that the description of the J-XX produced by CAC is very similar to the picture shown by 70092. Although the story sounds very fanboy-ish there might actually be some truth to it.
Translation Part 2:
huzhigeng: The large Chinese passenger plane is a national effort. The plan and flight control were developed by 611 while the structure was a cooperative effort between 601 and 611 (This is because 601 is more experienced dealing with twin-engined fighters (*he also mentioned something about "heavy four", as in heavy fourth generation (fifth gen) jet and I don't know how to translate it). The plane's structure was primarily designed by 601 since Dongbei (Manchurian province of China where Shengyang is located) has the upperhand when it comes to structural design, composite materials, and titanium alloys. Last time 601 was really busy posting pictures (more stuff on the "heavy four". I don't think it is very important).
枫兰: Is Dongbei's fourth generation (fifth gen) plane carrier-capable? How many fourth generation (fith gen) planes does China need? Are we going to get light-medium, heavy, and carrier capable fifth generation fighters?
huzhigeng: The picture recently released by Dongbei is that of a Airforce Fighter. The navy won't get their fighters this fast.
别离钩 ：huzhigeng, you said that the head, the front of the plane, and the models of the two planes (SAC and CAC fighters) have major differences. Are the planes' rears similar to one another?
huzhigeng: 611 usually likes to use their planes to test 4th gen (fifth generation) technology... J-10 and JF-17 are good examples. However the LERX on this plane are different from those of the sample plane. Fourth generation (fifth gen) fighters have large, sharp, protruding LERX not unlike those found on the JF-17 and Super Hornet. The engine nozzle has circular symmetry about the axis and could produce 360 degree *矢推，不是二元的。
青之六: The plane under construction should be the 01 prototype, right? According to J-xx fanatic 疯狗* the scaled model was made years ago!
huzhigeng: Right. The scaled-model has been made years ago but who dares to go in 132 and snap a picture? Can anyone get in? They won't just park the model on the lawn and let your snap pictures! They really are producing the 01 prototype. It looks very strange and "Sci-Fi", especially from the front.
klonoa1121：Let me go off topic for a sec. huzhigeng, do you know anything about J10-21?
huzhigeng: All I know is that J-10B is not the last J-10 variant.
别离钩: huzhigeng, who is the chief designer of the fourth gen (fifth gen) fighter? Is it 宋文骢 (designer of J-10), 杨伟, or the new comer - 季晓光?
huzhigeng: 伟哥 (Chinese phrase for Viagra
. No, its 杨伟). However 宋文骢 is an important contributer. He laid the foundation for the whole project. Finally the J-xx won't be possible without the hard work and dedication of the entire 11-th regiment.cyjsk：Hey boss (huzhigeng), what did you mean by adjustable DSI? Could the little "bumps" really move? If that's true then the J-xx is "Sci-Fi" indeed!
huzhigeng: Of course you can't adjust the bumps! However the intakes are adjustable. This way you can raise the maximum velocity. Killing two birds with one stone!
刀锋2009: huzhigeng, what is your opinion on 6th generation fighters?
huzhigeng: Americans are talking about it and we'll know when they are ready. We are talking about 6th gen fighters as well and our predictions are probably the same as their's. There should be two types of 6th gen. fighters - manned and unmanned.
freedr: Hey huzhigeng why does the air force need two Fourth generation (fifth gen) fighters? Is it because the air force needs high-lo combinations or is it because the 611 model is just an experimental plane or a plane not intended for mass production?
huzhigeng: What? A 611 experimental plane? Chengdu's heavy fourth gen. (fifth gen) fighter is similar to the F-22 and not many will be produced. I predict that only 300 will be produced. This is because Chengdu's plane is a heavy fighter and a heavy fighter emphasizes quality over quantity. The reverse is true for Dongbei's planes. I've never heard of countries that produce more heavy fighters than medium-light fighters. Are there more F-22s than F-35s? :rofl:
刀锋2009: Don't talk big when there are still problems with indigenious engines!
huzhigeng: The prototype won't use the WS-15. No one ever test new engines on their new fighters! The YF-22 didn't use new engines and neither did Russia's fighter (PAK-FA). We probably won't use new engines either. Our engines won't be slow (so don't worry)!
jcyjsk: Thank you huzhigeng! You said that some Russians are working on the Fourth Gen. (Fifth gen) fighter. Aren't you worried that they might leak information (look whose harking :rofl
.huzhigeng: There have been Russians working at 611 since the 90s! The Russian engineers at 611 are primarily airframe/structural experts. We are paying them well right now :rofl:.
gotowork: hey huzhigeng! Do we classify Fourth gen (Fifth gen) fighters the same way as the Americans (the 4S) or are we developing stealth fighters with "Chinese characteristics"?
huzhigeng: The characteristics of fourth generation (fifth gen) fighters are stealth, supermanueverability, supercruise, and AESA radars. Think about it! Those are the standards! Do you seriously think that our planes will be inferior? Our planes, however, emphasize supermanueverability and supercruise (that's why our 4th gen (5th gen) fighters are long and skinny). The 611 fighter will incorporate the advantages of American and Russian 5th generation fighters, use canards, large, sharp LERX, and adjustable DSI. Don't you think this plane is unique?
AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
Re: New Generation Fighter
Thanks for the translation. I don't know how legit it is but it makes interesting reading.
One of the pics of this CGI was posted with this interview over at FYJS. Personally I'm hoping for this but this isn't a belly intake like mentioned in the interview.
Thanks for the translation. I don't know how legit it is but it makes interesting reading.
One of the pics of this CGI was posted with this interview over at FYJS. Personally I'm hoping for this but this isn't a belly intake like mentioned in the interview.
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Re: New Generation Fighter
Yeah I don't know what to make of this stuff either. If you didn't give me the details and just a outline of huzhigeng's conversations I would've dismissed him as a Fengqing but after reading some of the stuff he posted ... I am not so sure. This guy appears to know what he is talking about.
What I find interesting is that in the very beginning he mentioned a person named 高山 who also claimed that the J-XX will have belly-intake. He vehemently dismissed that and claimed that although the intakes will be DSI, they will also be "adjustable". He said that the openings of the intakes could increase/decrease and I am unsure of how that could be accomplished. Is there any experts here who could enlighten me on how such a thing would theoretically work?
Yeah I don't know what to make of this stuff either. If you didn't give me the details and just a outline of huzhigeng's conversations I would've dismissed him as a Fengqing but after reading some of the stuff he posted ... I am not so sure. This guy appears to know what he is talking about.
What I find interesting is that in the very beginning he mentioned a person named 高山 who also claimed that the J-XX will have belly-intake. He vehemently dismissed that and claimed that although the intakes will be DSI, they will also be "adjustable". He said that the openings of the intakes could increase/decrease and I am unsure of how that could be accomplished. Is there any experts here who could enlighten me on how such a thing would theoretically work?
Re: New Generation Fighter
I know about intake ramps my friend. This, however, should be something different since DSI is already being used! What is the point of using DSI if you've already got intake ramps!
I know about intake ramps my friend. This, however, should be something different since DSI is already being used! What is the point of using DSI if you've already got intake ramps!
Re: New Generation Fighter
Guess I'll help with some parts.
*Double Four, means Heavy 4th Gen, as in large aircrafts like Su-27 or F22.
(as a side note, Chinese 4th gen is equivalent to Western 5th gen)
*Adjustable DSI, the outer structure cannot be moved, but the inside of the intake can be adjusted.
*大边条, Side extension, like that of the F-18 hornet which is used by the US navy.
Guess I'll help with some parts.
*Double Four, means Heavy 4th Gen, as in large aircrafts like Su-27 or F22.
(as a side note, Chinese 4th gen is equivalent to Western 5th gen)
*Adjustable DSI, the outer structure cannot be moved, but the inside of the intake can be adjusted.
*大边条, Side extension, like that of the F-18 hornet which is used by the US navy.
Re: New Generation Fighter
*Large Fighter is a national project, they joined produced Heavy 4 because 601 has more experience with twin engine frames.
*矢推，不是二元的, Thrust vectoring, not 2D.
Sounds like a good plan!
Before I start the second part of the translation I would like other forum members to take note that the description of the J-XX produced by CAC is very similar to the picture shown by 70092. Although the story sounds very fanboy-ish there might actually be some truth to it.
Translation Part 2:
huzhigeng: The large Chinese passenger plane is a national effort. The plan and flight control were developed by 611 while the structure was a cooperative effort between 601 and 611 (This is because 601 is more experienced dealing with twin-engined fighters (*he also mentioned something about "heavy four", as in heavy fourth generation (fifth gen) jet and I don't know how to translate it). The plane's structure was primarily designed by 601 since Dongbei (Manchurian province of China where Shengyang is located) has the upperhand when it comes to structural design, composite materials, and titanium alloys. Last time 601 was really busy posting pictures (more stuff on the "heavy four". I don't think it is very important).
枫兰: Is Dongbei's fourth generation (fifth gen) plane carrier-capable? How many fourth generation (fith gen) planes does China need? Are we going to get light-medium, heavy, and carrier capable fifth generation fighters?
huzhigeng: The picture recently released by Dongbei is that of a Airforce Fighter. The navy won't get their fighters this fast.
别离钩 ：huzhigeng, you said that the head, the front of the plane, and the models of the two planes (SAC and CAC fighters) have major differences. Are the planes' rears similar to one another?
huzhigeng: 611 usually likes to use their planes to test 4th gen (fifth generation) technology... J-10 and JF-17 are good examples. However the LERX on this plane are different from those of the sample plane. Fourth generation (fifth gen) fighters have large, sharp, protruding LERX not unlike those found on the JF-17 and Super Hornet. The engine nozzle has circular symmetry about the axis and could produce 360 degree *矢推，不是二元的。
青之六: The plane under construction should be the 01 prototype, right? According to J-xx fanatic 疯狗* the scaled model was made years ago!
huzhigeng: Right. The scaled-model has been made years ago but who dares to go in 132 and snap a picture? Can anyone get in? They won't just park the model on the lawn and let your snap pictures! They really are producing the 01 prototype. It looks very strange and "Sci-Fi", especially from the front.
klonoa1121：Let me go off topic for a sec. huzhigeng, do you know anything about J10-21?
huzhigeng: All I know is that J-10B is not the last J-10 variant.
别离钩: huzhigeng, who is the chief designer of the fourth gen (fifth gen) fighter? Is it 宋文骢 (designer of J-10), 杨伟, or the new comer - 季晓光?
huzhigeng: 伟哥 (Chinese phrase for Viagra
cyjsk：Hey boss (huzhigeng), what did you mean by adjustable DSI? Could the little "bumps" really move? If that's true then the J-xx is "Sci-Fi" indeed!
huzhigeng: Of course you can't adjust the bumps! However the intakes are adjustable. This way you can raise the maximum velocity. Killing two birds with one stone!
刀锋2009: huzhigeng, what is your opinion on 6th generation fighters?
huzhigeng: Americans are talking about it and we'll know when they are ready. We are talking about 6th gen fighters as well and our predictions are probably the same as their's. There should be two types of 6th gen. fighters - manned and unmanned.
freedr: Hey huzhigeng why does the air force need two Fourth generation (fifth gen) fighters? Is it because the air force needs high-lo combinations or is it because the 611 model is just an experimental plane or a plane not intended for mass production?
huzhigeng: What? A 611 experimental plane? Chengdu's heavy fourth gen. (fifth gen) fighter is similar to the F-22 and not many will be produced. I predict that only 300 will be produced. This is because Chengdu's plane is a heavy fighter and a heavy fighter emphasizes quality over quantity. The reverse is true for Dongbei's planes. I've never heard of countries that produce more heavy fighters than medium-light fighters. Are there more F-22s than F-35s? :rofl:
刀锋2009: Don't talk big when there are still problems with indigenious engines!
huzhigeng: The prototype won't use the WS-15. No one ever test new engines on their new fighters! The YF-22 didn't use new engines and neither did Russia's fighter (PAK-FA). We probably won't use new engines either. Our engines won't be slow (so don't worry)!
jcyjsk: Thank you huzhigeng! You said that some Russians are working on the Fourth Gen. (Fifth gen) fighter. Aren't you worried that they might leak information (look whose harking :rofl
huzhigeng: There have been Russians working at 611 since the 90s! The Russian engineers at 611 are primarily airframe/structural experts. We are paying them well right now :rofl:.
gotowork: hey huzhigeng! Do we classify Fourth gen (Fifth gen) fighters the same way as the Americans (the 4S) or are we developing stealth fighters with "Chinese characteristics"?
huzhigeng: The characteristics of fourth generation (fifth gen) fighters are stealth, supermanueverability, supercruise, and AESA radars. Think about it! Those are the standards! Do you seriously think that our planes will be inferior? Our planes, however, emphasize supermanueverability and supercruise (that's why our 4th gen (5th gen) fighters are long and skinny). The 611 fighter will incorporate the advantages of American and Russian 5th generation fighters, use canards, large, sharp LERX, and adjustable DSI. Don't you think this plane is unique?
*Large Fighter is a national project, they joined produced Heavy 4 because 601 has more experience with twin engine frames.
*矢推，不是二元的, Thrust vectoring, not 2D.
Re: New Generation Fighter
Perhaps to generate even more compression through shock wave, that is if DSI can't do adequate job on its own. Both creates inlet compression but the mechanism is somewhat different. A DSI can also be used to 'hide' the compressor blade, for stealthiness, intake ramp can't do this.
That's as far as I know.
Perhaps to generate even more compression through shock wave, that is if DSI can't do adequate job on its own. Both creates inlet compression but the mechanism is somewhat different. A DSI can also be used to 'hide' the compressor blade, for stealthiness, intake ramp can't do this.
That's as far as I know.
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