J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread V

[latenlazy]

Stuff they've been saying from the beginning... The flaw is the RAM paint point. If it were that superior at absorbing radar waves, why not use on every other US fighter? Wouldn't it significantly reduce every aircraft's radar signature? So either China's RAM is just as good or the difference is insignificant that it only works incrementally with other more important stealth features in reducing radar signature.

RAM properties have to be matched with the properties of the plane's surfaces to be effective. It's not generic solution. That said, there seems to be a lot of certainty in the article's claims and little actual evidence to show for it. It's barely better than an iPhone vs Android flame thread.

 

[cyan1320]

One day the American public is being told that we have the best intelligence services in the world, the next day we are being told the Russians & Chinese are hacking & stealing sensitive info practically at will,,,, so which version is true?

Depends on the attitude of the media at the time the story is run. LOLz


Classic example:

 

[Tyloe]

Sounded like the usual 'China' one liners when they don't want to scare the public for money. Hype up the threat or downplay them. It would be different if this was on the offical open DoD assessments papers to Congress. At least those are more substantial.

 

[siegecrossbow]

I heard that part where he dropped the hint as well. What could it be? That's the only plausible thing I can think of that could be demonstrated during the flight that we did not notice would be TVC. Any thoughts?

I am not sold on the TVC theory. Where are the mechanisms for moving the nozzle if that were true?

 

[Air Force Brat]

I am not sold on the TVC theory. Where are the mechanisms for moving the nozzle if that were true?

There is NO OVT on the J-20, period! while it was entertained, it seems there is very little interest in China on the more expensive, complicated, and heavier OVT nozzles??? sorry

 

[Air Force Brat]

So here we are, everybody guessing how advanced China's stealth fighter is compared to America's. We have guesses ranging from near peer all the way to 3 decades behind. J-20, F-35, F-22, pretty much all classified up to the teeth and everyone's mostly playing it safe and guessing how far behind China is compared to America cus traditionally, the US leads.

Let me ask a question. If supercomputer performance were classified too, how would you guess the 2 countries compared to each other there? What would you all say, that China is 5 years behind, more like 10, 20 years behind, or that China probably doesn't even have a real supercomputer? Likely no one would dare break dogma and guess that the US was actually behind without very solid evidence for fear of sounding ridiculous. Who would venture to guess that China has the fastest, and second fastest supercomputers in the world and that number 1, using all domestic chips, was more powerful than America's top 20 combined? Who would laugh this guy out of the room, calling him a wishful fanboy with a wet dream?

I suggest you look at Gen. Goldfein's resume, he flew the F-117, as well as the F-16 C/D, and I can assure you that he has more intimate, accurate knowledge of fifth generation fighter aircraft than the combined knowledge of all posters on the SDF. The F-117 was only flown at night, and was kept top-secret longer than any other aircraft in U.S. history.

For you to suggest that anyone with any native intelligence what so ever would laugh David Goldfein out of the room is absurd.

 

[Air Force Brat]

That could be it, his exact words were pretty vague: "they actually demonstrated things that they didn't demonstrate".

What he intended to say was that only a small fraction of the J-20s actual capabilities were demonstrated in this very brief "teaser"! no doubt the J-20 is very capable, and they did not "beat on it", but gave a nice, photo-op flight demo of two J-20s, with a very brief demonstration of the J-20s outstanding flight characteristics.

 

[Blackstone]

One day the American public is being told that we have the best intelligence services in the world, the next day we are being told the Russians & Chinese are hacking & stealing sensitive info practically at will,,,, so which version is true?

Since there's no such thing as perfect intelligence or security services, so rational people would say the one doesn't rule out the other, and both can be true at the same time.

I'm sure he does have access to J-20 data that's not known to the public, but most likely the info is incomplete at best. Previous high ranking US military officials assessment regarding J-20's timeline turned out to be completely inaccurate, so personally I wouldn't trust their assessments completely.

OK, let's say you're right about General Goldfein only having imperfect information about the J-20, it still means what he says carries more weight, and he's more trustworthy than some Communist factory manager out to please his (notice there aren't any her?) political commissars and the Party Apparatchik.

 

[Blackstone]

CNN Should US be worried about China's new J-20 stealth fighters?

CNN's ppt on J-20 vs F-22 & F-35:

1. J-20 is undeniably less stealthy.
2. it is extremely unlikely that the J-20 is equipped with anything approaching the F-22's and F-35's sensor suite.


(CNN)The Chinese air force

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The

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in air power circles for many years as Chinese military bloggers leaked images of the various preproduction prototypes.

The main questions being asked now are how much of a threat does the J-20 pose to American dominance of the skies in the Asia-Pacific region, and how much of a shift does the aircraft represent in terms of China's military capabilities?

In terms of a direct comparison with the US Air Force's own stealth fighters -- the F-22 Raptor and F-35 Joint Strike Fighter -- the J-20 is undeniably less stealthy.

The forward-mounted canards, poorly shielded engines and underside vertical stabilizers all limit the amount that its radar cross section -- which determines how visible the aircraft is to a radar -- can be reduced.

China also has significantly less know-how in terms of radar-absorbent coatings compared with the United States. Most importantly, it is extremely unlikely that the J-20 is equipped with anything approaching the F-22's and F-35's sensor suite.

This is crucial because it is not only the fact that they are hard to detect on radar that makes the F-22 and F-35 so deadly, but also the unrivaled situational awareness that their sensor-fusion capabilities give to their pilots.

However, despite the fact that the J-20 almost certainly cannot match the radar-evading properties or situational-awareness capabilities of US-made stealth fighters, it does have several advantages over them.

First, due to its larger size it will carry significantly more internal fuel, so it will have a longer range and be less dependent on vulnerable aerial refueling tankers in the vast Asia-Pacific. It also has larger internal weapons bays than either the F-22 or F-35, so it will be able to carry larger, longer-range missiles or a greater load of standard air-to-air and air-to-ground munitions than either of the US designs.

Finally, the J-20 is almost certainly going to be produced in far larger numbers than the F-22 and potentially even the F-35 if Chinese defense spending continues on current trajectories in relation to the United States and its allies.

Essentially, the J-20 will give the Chinese air force a long-range, hard-to-detect strike and interdiction fighter that can threaten the air bases, carriers, airborne warning and control systems, and refueling aircraft that the United States and its allies rely on to project air power over the vast distances of the Asia-Pacific.

While it is not as hard to detect as the F-35 and certainly the F-22, it would still be a lethal and evasive threat hidden within a mass of conventional aircraft and missile tracks in any flashpoint scenario.
The J-20, once in full scale production and service, will represent a significantly greater and fundamentally different threat to the Russian Su-30/35 Flanker family derivatives that currently form the leading edge of Chinese air power.

For the United States, it represents a serious threat in certain operational scenarios such as a confrontation over Taiwan or the contested Senkaku Islands.

For less capable militaries in the region such as Japan, South Korea and Taiwan, the J-20 represents a game-changing capability shift on the horizon from their primary military threat -- the Chinese air force.

That's what we've been hearing from the learned, so I'm inclined to believe it till different facts come out.

 

[vesicles]

OK, let's say you're right about General Goldfein only having imperfect information about the J-20, it still means what he says carries more weight, and he's more trustworthy than some Communist factory manager out to please his (notice there aren't any her?) political commissars and the Party Apparatchik.

General Golden is not an elected official. He rose through the ranks via promotions. So he in fact has a boss and, as any human, has the tendency to please his boss.