J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread V

[vesicles]

And why are we still on General Golden? He made a one sentence comment on the J-20! And that spawned 5(?) pages of debate here on basically the same point hashed again and again! No one here knows the true capabilities of the J-20. The USAF won't tell us. The PLA won't tell us.

It's time to move on. Let's move on. Please...

 

[manqiangrexue]

I suggest you look at Gen. Goldfein's resume, he flew the F-117, as well as the F-16 C/D, and I can assure you that he has more intimate, accurate knowledge of fifth generation fighter aircraft than the combined knowledge of all posters on the SDF. The F-117 was only flown at night, and was kept top-secret longer than any other aircraft in U.S. history.

For you to suggest that anyone with any native intelligence what so ever would laugh David Goldfein out of the room is absurd.

Brat, you didn't read my post correctly at all. Read it again; there was nothing in there about laughing at any general.

...INSULT REMOVED BY MODERATOR...

It wasn't written in a confusing way so what are the chances both of you read that post incorrectly?

 

[Mikeybikey]

I think we should get back to talking about the J-20, the American General can say whatever he wants. The fact is, the J-20 is going to be inducted soon and it will be the world's third stealth fighter in service. There will always be doubters, what's new? We've all seen how far the J-20 program came along, there will be a J-20A soon and a J-20B. It really doesn't matter if it's better than the F-22 or the F-35 right now, it's where its heading and the commitment from the Chinese military to make that happen. I think that is what's worrying the American military, the fact that someone is now committed to be on par with you. In my personal opinion, I think the J-20 combines the brains of the F-35 with the agility of the F-22. Btw, is anyone familiar with the cooling systems of combat aircrafts? With all the computers and sensors all packed together, do they overheat in anyway?

 

[Blackstone]

General Golden is not an elected official. He rose through the ranks via promotions. So he in fact has a boss and, as any human, has the tendency to please his boss.

You're right, Vesicles, and I have no doubt General Goldfein is careful not to upset the powers that be. But, it's not the same playing field. Consider what's the worst that can happen to Goldfein if he runs afoul of the Beltway mandarins? He's fired from his post and retired to pasture. His career is ruined, but he can still have a comfortable retirement. On the other hand, what's the worst for the Communist factory manager (it's an SOE, ergo Communist), if he truly pissed off the Beijing mandarins? Internal exile? Jailed for corruption? His political commissar gives him something even darker?

 

[manqiangrexue]

Since there's no such thing as perfect intelligence or security services, so rational people would say the one doesn't rule out the other, and both can be true at the same time.


OK, let's say you're right about General Goldfein only having imperfect information about the J-20, it still means what he says carries more weight, and he's more trustworthy than some Communist factory manager out to please his (notice there aren't any her?) political commissars and the Party Apparatchik.

Well, Goldfein might have imperfect information, no significant information, or false information. As a part of intelligence, many countries will plant false files out there for foreign intelligence to discover. Goldein's team could have just as easily, or more easily, retrieved files planted by Chinese intelligence than getting the real files. There is no evidence that he has any real intel on China's projects and if he did, he'd have to be mentally incapacitated to discuss his findings publicly. Very interesting how you brought up the gender of factory workers on this thread. Are you that desperate to find any way at all to insult China? It's just pathetic. Why don't you discuss how you think the factory workers are probably getting back from lunch break where they're likely eating dog? And yes, about the women, you'd be wrong, yet again. Look at China's video for the creation of J-10 and you will find at females who have worked on the project. When you carry so little knowledge, but so much faith and bias, it's just not possible to make headway.

 

[latenlazy]

That's what we've been hearing from the learned, so I'm inclined to believe it till different facts come out.

A bit dismissive to regard some with contrary assessments on this forum as "not learned". A title is just a title, and most of these commenters aren't exactly technically qualified "experts".

 

[Blackstone]

A bit dismissive to regard some with contrary assessments on this forum as "not learned". A title is just a title, and most of these commenters aren't exactly technically qualified "experts".

Humm, I see your reasoning, but by "learned," I meant the experts, the pundit class, and military folks. It had nothing to do with SDF posters, good or bad.

 

[latenlazy]

Humm, I see your reasoning, but by "learned," I meant the experts, the pundit class, and military folks. It had nothing to do with SDF posters, good or bad.

I'm just saying that we shouldn't take many of these "pundits" at their word (especially those who are public facing). I know a few personally, and, to put it politely, I'm not quite sure they're as informed or knowledgeable as their titles may suggest.

 

[Jeff Head]

Folks, let's get back on topic here. This is the thread about th CVHinse J-20. More OT discussion about the F-35 or other topics will be removed.

...and, manqiangrexue, you are relatively new on SD. Please read the SD Rules of Behavior and be careful about insulting other members of the forum.

Reasoned discussion with other members over points you disagree with is fine, either on the forum, or if you want to get deeper, do it via PM.

But any more such insults will receive 1st Warnings (and consider this one), then moderation up to and including temporary removal of posting privileges, and finally banning from SD if it continues thereafter.

Thanks.

DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS MODERATION

 

[taxiya]

CNN Should US be worried about China's new J-20 stealth fighters?

CNN's ppt on J-20 vs F-22 & F-35:

1. J-20 is undeniably less stealthy.
2. it is extremely unlikely that the J-20 is equipped with anything approaching the F-22's and F-35's sensor suite.


(CNN)The Chinese air force

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The

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in air power circles for many years as Chinese military bloggers leaked images of the various preproduction prototypes.

The main questions being asked now are how much of a threat does the J-20 pose to American dominance of the skies in the Asia-Pacific region, and how much of a shift does the aircraft represent in terms of China's military capabilities?

In terms of a direct comparison with the US Air Force's own stealth fighters -- the F-22 Raptor and F-35 Joint Strike Fighter -- the J-20 is undeniably less stealthy.

The forward-mounted canards, poorly shielded engines and underside vertical stabilizers all limit the amount that its radar cross section -- which determines how visible the aircraft is to a radar -- can be reduced.

China also has significantly less know-how in terms of radar-absorbent coatings compared with the United States. Most importantly, it is extremely unlikely that the J-20 is equipped with anything approaching the F-22's and F-35's sensor suite.

This is crucial because it is not only the fact that they are hard to detect on radar that makes the F-22 and F-35 so deadly, but also the unrivaled situational awareness that their sensor-fusion capabilities give to their pilots.

However, despite the fact that the J-20 almost certainly cannot match the radar-evading properties or situational-awareness capabilities of US-made stealth fighters, it does have several advantages over them.

First, due to its larger size it will carry significantly more internal fuel, so it will have a longer range and be less dependent on vulnerable aerial refueling tankers in the vast Asia-Pacific. It also has larger internal weapons bays than either the F-22 or F-35, so it will be able to carry larger, longer-range missiles or a greater load of standard air-to-air and air-to-ground munitions than either of the US designs.

Finally, the J-20 is almost certainly going to be produced in far larger numbers than the F-22 and potentially even the F-35 if Chinese defense spending continues on current trajectories in relation to the United States and its allies.

Essentially, the J-20 will give the Chinese air force a long-range, hard-to-detect strike and interdiction fighter that can threaten the air bases, carriers, airborne warning and control systems, and refueling aircraft that the United States and its allies rely on to project air power over the vast distances of the Asia-Pacific.

While it is not as hard to detect as the F-35 and certainly the F-22, it would still be a lethal and evasive threat hidden within a mass of conventional aircraft and missile tracks in any flashpoint scenario.
The J-20, once in full scale production and service, will represent a significantly greater and fundamentally different threat to the Russian Su-30/35 Flanker family derivatives that currently form the leading edge of Chinese air power.

For the United States, it represents a serious threat in certain operational scenarios such as a confrontation over Taiwan or the contested Senkaku Islands.

For less capable militaries in the region such as Japan, South Korea and Taiwan, the J-20 represents a game-changing capability shift on the horizon from their primary military threat -- the Chinese air force.

It is CNN, what do you expect? You know "CNN" has become an Chinese cyber-word since 2008? Use in "做人不要太CNN了。", literally "Man shall not be too CNN", meaning "the bottom line of being a human is not to act like CNN."