J-10 Thread III (Closed to posting)

[tphuang]

But they didn't do anything with the J-10 last year at the Zhuhai show. If they are actively trying to export the J-10, they should do a better job advertising it.

Exporting the J-10 to Pakistan? Is it official or just fanboy stuff? The only thing concrete is the JF-17. I have not seen anything official or even remotely suggestive of China's intention to export the J-10 to anybody.

And China has never exported anything that they themselves deploy in large quantity, especially when that equipment is still new and is still the pride of China's fighter development industry. They worked so hard and so long to develop the J-10 not too long ago and it is clear they intend to use the J-10 as their mainstay fighter for a long time to come. And they still have so many old planes that they need to replace. And they are still developing new tactics and doctrines for the J-10 themselves. I don't think they want to export it at all. It just does not make sense.

That's because J-10 is not a export focused project, so you don't want to just list all of its numbers. But if they are bringing it to Zhuhai airshow, flying it around and then having it displayed on the ground with all of the weapons it supports, then it's available to friendly countries.

The export to Pakistan was widely reported. It only hasn't gone through yet due to Pakistan's finance issues. At this point, they are not aggressively trying to sell it like they have been with JF-17, but they will do it to friendly nations for political purposes. Especially with J-20 project proceeding well at this point and J-10B entering service, there is no reason that some variant based on J-10A with some upgraded technologies cannot be offered.

They are offering a variant of Yuan submarine while they are still inducting it. They were offering a variant of 054A to Thailand a year ago.

 

[thunderchief]

The export to Pakistan was widely reported. It only hasn't gone through yet due to Pakistan's finance issues.

To be realistic, AL-31 was/is major stumbling block for export of J-10 . Especially to Pakistan, since India uses same type of engines (not the same subtype tho) . I sincerely doubt there will be much of J-10 export until China develops version powered by WS-10, because Mig-29 and J-10 are direct competition on international market .

 

[Dizasta1]

To be realistic, AL-31 was/is major stumbling block for export of J-10 . Especially to Pakistan, since India uses same type of engines (not the same subtype tho). I sincerely doubt there will be much of J-10 export until China develops version powered by WS-10, because Mig-29 and J-10 are direct competition on international market .

The engine reasoning is a flawed one. There is no specification outlined by the Russian Federation, which prohibits sale of Chinese combat aircraft, whose propulsion is powered by Russian engines. In particular, to Pakistan.

The RD-93 is a modified version engine of the RD-33 engine family and it powers Pakistan Air Force's JF-17 Thunders. And the Russian Federation had approved the sale of engines which powers the Chinese combat-jet, that China has sold to Pakistan.

The J-10 Dragon's sale to Pakistan, has been put on hold. In part, due to the financial woes, that Pakistan had experienced in the former PPP government's tenure. The reason given by Pakistan Air Force sources, in various books and magazines, were the high rate of new platforms being absorbed into the Air Force's combat structure. And most of all, due to Pakistan Air Force's total focus and commitment to the JF-17 Thunder program.

One has to understand and recognize the fact that Pakistan Air Force is not a "large" air force like China's or Russia's or America's.

When the time is right, the finances are in order and the understanding between both China and Pakistan has been reached. I am sure that Pakistan Air Force would not be naive enough to pass on the opportunity of buying J-10Bs. But that all depends on the "when" and not the 'if'.

 

[antiterror13]

I don't see any big need of J-10B for Pakistan, perhaps would be better to jump to J-31 instead

 

[Dizasta1]

I don't see any big need of J-10B for Pakistan, perhaps would be better to jump to J-31 instead

FC-31 or J-31, would be a phenomenal leap forward in terms of air combat capabilities for any country who chooses to procure this combat aircraft.

Having said that, the aircraft is still a good few years away from attaining full operational capability. As such, it represents a capability gap, for those Air Forces who need to capabilities on platforms which can fill the gap, until the Stealth Aircraft becomes available for procurement.

I believe that Pakistan Air Force is currently devoting all its attention toward the further development of JF-17 Thunders. There are various aspects which need to be addressed, when introducing a new platform into the combat fleet.

So the J-10 will not figure into the Pakistan Air Force requirements, in the immediate future. But that does not mean that J-10 is not an aircraft which Pakistan Air Force would not want.

The J-10 is an effective weapons' platform, which brings with it an array of capabilities that any Air Force in the world would want. But as previous posters have mentioned, China is at present, not looking to export this particular combat aircraft.

In my opinion, the focus of both China and Pakistan should be, marketing JF-17 Thunders. I have a strong belief that JF-17s will break the 1000 mark in exports, over the years to come.

 

[timepass]

I tend to disagree with your post's second half, J10B falls in the line of EU fighter/Rafale hence PAF in need of such a platform who could cover that gap & can face IAF-Rafale.

As I mentioned earlier on this thread that the reason putting the famous FC20 (J10A) on hold was IAF deal for MRCA & the birth of J10B. Since PAF had a sqd of F16 blk 52 hence they got enough breathing space to wait for materialization of J10B.

IMO, J10B is very much on, finance is not an issue that can be arranged on soft loans..

 

[thunderchief]

The engine reasoning is a flawed one. There is no specification outlined by the Russian Federation, which prohibits sale of Chinese combat aircraft, whose propulsion is powered by Russian engines. In particular, to Pakistan.

Read between the lines. There was a minor diplomatic scandal between Russia and India , when Russia allowed re-sale of RD-93 to Pakistan. And RD-93 (RD-33) is significantly less strategically important to India then AL-31 . In a current situation, I doubt Russia would want to alienate its most important military customer , and that is India . And without Russian support it would be extremely difficult to export J-10 to anyone ., unless china comes up with WS-10 equipped variant.

 

[A Bar Brother]

That's because J-10 is not a export focused project, so you don't want to just list all of its numbers. But if they are bringing it to Zhuhai airshow, flying it around and then having it displayed on the ground with all of the weapons it supports, then it's available to friendly countries.

From what I've read the J-10A is yet to get export certification. Considering that, the J-10B's export certification is likely many years away, until PLAAF gets all the jets they want.

It is in Indian interests if PAF picks the J-10 over the F-16 Block 52. Not in Indian interests if they wait for the J-31.

 

[thunderchief]

It is in Indian interests if PAF picks the J-10 over the F-16 Block 52. Not in Indian interests if they wait for the J-31.

Not really. There is a limited number of F-16 Block 52 Pakistan could get (availability and price) . Also, these aircraft have closed development cycle, unlike J-10 which would certainly get upgrades in the future , especially considering avionics. Strategically, if China manages to produce J-10 with domestic engines and starts selling them to Pakistan, it would put significant pressure on India .

 

[A Bar Brother]

Not really. There is a limited number of F-16 Block 52 Pakistan could get (availability and price) . Also, these aircraft have closed development cycle, unlike J-10 which would certainly get upgrades in the future , especially considering avionics. Strategically, if China manages to produce J-10 with domestic engines and starts selling them to Pakistan, it would put significant pressure on India .

As long as it means PAF will have reduced funds for a 5th gen, then it is always in India's interest. They will buy aircraft, everybody can be sure of that. If they make bad decisions while doing it, that is in India's interest. A J-10 with the WS-10 for PAF is the best case scenario for India.

I'm not saying the J-10 is bad, I'm saying the time it will take to induct the J-10 and operationalize it will match India's slow procurement process.