J-10 Thread III (Closed to posting)

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siegecrossbow

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So guys ... just back from the loooong summer-holydays and after some working around I'm back in here :p

I have to admit if everytime I'm off so much happens, I should stay away from the www more often. :eek:

Anyway, nice to be back ....

Deino

You missed some new J-20 afterburned takeoff footages as well! Also you are lucky that the Varyag didn't leave dock on August 1st. Maybe they were waiting for you to come back from vacation?
 

Deino

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You missed some new J-20 afterburned takeoff footages as well! Also you are lucky that the Varyag didn't leave dock on August 1st. Maybe they were waiting for you to come back from vacation?

Yes, I've seen them in that very interesting video including the J-10B 05 (were there also photos in high-rez available ??) but yet another thing:

J-10prototypes.jpg


Did You notice the minor change in fron of the Canards ??? ... is it a new RWR or something similar or an aerodynamic feature to increase the vortex over the canards ?

Looks IMO more like a RWR, since the former J-10A's white bump one under the front fuselage has been gone.

Deino
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
Yes, I've seen them in that very interesting video including the J-10B 05 (were there also photos in high-rez available ??) but yet another thing:

J-10prototypes.jpg


Did You notice the minor change in fron of the Canards ??? ... is it a new RWR or something similar or an aerodynamic feature to increase the vortex over the canards ?

Looks IMO more like a RWR, since the former J-10A's white bump one under the front fuselage has been gone.

Deino
After that sickeningly long debate with mig-29, my guess is that they're LERXes in front of canards, which makes the J-10 superior to the Rafale XD
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
After that sickeningly long debate with mig-29, my guess is that they're LERXes in front of canards, which makes the J-10 superior to the Rafale XD

They are not LERXes!!! I am of the opinion that they are used to house electronic attack antennas.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Yes, I've seen them in that very interesting video including the J-10B 05 (were there also photos in high-rez available ??) but yet another thing:

Did You notice the minor change in fron of the Canards ??? ... is it a new RWR or something similar or an aerodynamic feature to increase the vortex over the canards ?

Looks IMO more like a RWR, since the former J-10A's white bump one under the front fuselage has been gone.

Deino

There was another, better quality picture posted earlier with a few differences that the author made out marked out.

It is easy to miss as the picture does not load properly sometimes.

The original link is
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But I uploaded it to imageshack in case it is not loading properly.

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It is a bit of a shame the picture is so marked, since most of the 'differences' seem superficial or just a trick of the light, while the picture of the WS10 J10B has not been posted elsewhere in its unmarked form, and it is a pretty decent shot.

The only main differences worthy of note are the new housing in front of the canards and the added housing behind the datalink antenna on the plane's spine. Maybe it is a new datalink, or it could be a new antenna of some sort.

Hopefully the original and more better quality pics will show up.

It is quite clear looking at this that this is the production version of the J10B, with the full avionics suit and working radar. The paint scheme would also suggest this based on the J10A, with the two-tone camo being the pre-production version, and the uniform PLAAF grey as the final production model.

Hopefully we will see a batch of these bad boys soon.
 

Engineer

Major
After that sickeningly long debate with mig-29, my guess is that they're LERXes in front of canards, which makes the J-10 superior to the Rafale XD

LOL!

On a serious note, this is a design feature they brought over from the J-20. I think it is intended to block radar signal from reaching the hinge.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
LOL!

On a serious note, this is a design feature they brought over from the J-20. I think it is intended to block radar signal from reaching the hinge.

Except there is no such thing on the J20.

What more, the housing is very blocky, and not exactly stealth optimised for it to be to RCS reduction-only measure.

With the basic J10B layout, it is also highly questionable if reducing that tiny bit of RCS from the canard hinge would make any noticeable operational difference.

I think that it being some sort of housing for a new sensor or emitter is far more likely.

It may well hide the hinge and reduce RCS, but that would very much be a secondary effect.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
There is, as the gap is not straight.

That is just an aerodynamic measure to deal with the curve on the intake so as to to not present any jagged edges which would increase drag, and probably RCS as well.

If you look at photos on the J20, you can see that that little extension does not go beyond the root of the canard, and the 'hinge' on the canard is not obscured at all by that extension.

The bulge on the J10B looks to completely block the root of the canard, and thus would shield the 'hinge'.

However, with its flat surfaces and bulky design, it is really hard to see how that would present much RCS reduction compared to a tiny bit of the 'hinge' barely visible between the canard and the root of the J10A.

The likely explanation for its size is that it is a design afterthought.

So why was it not on the first flying J10B prototype?

The first prototype is the aerodynamic testbed. If this was purely an RCS reduction measure, then it would be an aerodynamic design and should have been presented on the first prototype.

However, we are only seeing it on the number 5 bird, which just happens to be the one with the operational avionics suit, and it just cements my belief that this is a new housing for a new piece of avionics.

If they wanted the structure purely for RCS/drag reduction reasons, they would not have chosen such a boxy design and would have gone with a more streamlined and contoured design. Just using a half arrowhead design would have been far more simple and much more effective at reducing drag and RCS.
 

Engineer

Major
That is just an aerodynamic measure to deal with the curve on the intake so as to to not present any jagged edges which would increase drag, and probably RCS as well.

If you look at photos on the J20, you can see that that little extension does not go beyond the root of the canard, and the 'hinge' on the canard is not obscured at all by that extension.
I am seeing that the hinge is being obscured. I think what you meant to say here is that the gap is not obscured.

The bulge on the J10B looks to completely block the root of the canard, and thus would shield the 'hinge'.

However, with its flat surfaces and bulky design, it is really hard to see how that would present much RCS reduction compared to a tiny bit of the 'hinge' barely visible between the canard and the root of the J10A.
Barely visible doesn't mean it couldn't create unwanted return signals. As for the bulkiness of this new addition, they probably didn't have much choice. They couldn't have gone with a more elegant (J-20's style) design, as that would mean they have to redesign the canard, which would cause it to lose commonalities with existing J-10s and result in logistical problems.

So why was it not on the first flying J10B prototype?

The first prototype is the aerodynamic testbed. If this was purely an RCS reduction measure, then it would be an aerodynamic design and should have been presented on the first prototype.

However, we are only seeing it on the number 5 bird, which just happens to be the one with the operational avionics suit, and it just cements my belief that this is a new housing for a new piece of avionics.
If it doesn't have much to do with aerodynamics, then it doesn't need to be tested on the first prototype.

If they wanted the structure purely for RCS/drag reduction reasons, they would not have chosen such a boxy design and would have gone with a more streamlined and contoured design. Just using a half arrowhead design would have been far more simple and much more effective at reducing drag and RCS.
The same could be said if it is a housing for electronics.
 
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