Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

phrozenflame

Junior Member
Registered Member
Saab is looking to outsource Carl Gustaf M4 manufacturing to India. For India, this may sound like a great deal. But this is actually a continuation of the old trend of it's defence industry. License-producing foreign-origin weapons on Indian soil. They have been doing this for decades already. Such as the: Bofors Haubits FH77 155mm howitzer, T-90 tanks, Su-30MKI, Brahmos missiles, and more recently, the AK-203.

All of this shows that India continues to struggle to innovate its own indegenious weapons design. Sure there are the Vikrant, Arjun, and Tejas. But all of them are designed with extensive input from foreign sources, and all of them are not exactly truly impressive.

The Carl Gustaf M4 recoilless rifle is a popular and impressive shoulder-fired weapon. But it is not the most cutting-edge weapon of it's type. Many countries have already moved on to NLAWS, and MATADOR. China and Russia are already producing superior weapons of their own design.

Rajnath Singh declares that this deal with Saab will help increase India's defence exports. I can't help but think of this as yet another Indian empty boast. While exports of CG M4s made in India could be counted in some statistics. It is ultimately still a product of Saab. Saab will ultimately be the one who gets the most credit, and profits from any CG M4 sales. Any arms-export credit that India wants to claim is worthless. Because India is (again) riding on the defence sales of foreign manufacturers.

'Lesser' nations like South Africa, South Korea, and Turkey are already successfully exporting weapons of their own design. So no matter how India spins this Saab deal. It is not actually progress, it's more of the same. India's defence industry development continues to stagnate.
At this point defense industries of S Korea, Turkey are ahead of India. Quite shocking if you see the actual output:hubris ratio.
 

phrozenflame

Junior Member
Registered Member
Exactly. Blockade the Malacca Straits, and it won't become just a blockade of China, but a blockade of everyone using that waterway.


I have no sympathy for India's position.

When India invaded China in 1962 (yes it was a textbook invasion according to the Henderson Brooks-Bhagat Report), India was roughly equal to China in economy, and slightly superior in military equipment. India had a limited ability to threaten China in 1962, and went ahead to provoke a border war. China defeated India comprehensively, and that kept the peace for decades.

In early 2020 during the Covid-19 crisis in Wuhan, India attempted to Salami-slice pieces of Aksai Chin away. Having not seen the PLA in action for decades, Indian soldiers were emboldened to bully, and then proceeded to murder Chinese soldiers. Thanks to the PLA's far superior competence, India's aggression stopped there.

It is my belief that if India senses China's vulnerability, then India would attempt military adventure on China. India has desires to be a hegemonic empire in its part of Asia. It doesn't hide its desire to eventually take Tibet from China. The Indian media and a significant part of the Indian populace desires India to be a leading power in Asia at the expense of China.

It is better for China to actually bully India right now. India can never, ever be trusted. It is just a plain historical fact. India is unable to comprehend the idea of mutual compromise, respect, and cooperation with its Asian neighbours. India only respects strength, not benevolence. It is better for China to keep India down, and deal with it from a position of strength. Otherwise, the alternative is an eventual Indian military adventure on China with more lives lost, or worse.
It was a massive mistake for China IMO to not press ahead in 1962 and pull back after winning the fight. China needs to either resolve all outstanding border issues with India and neutralize the threat politically or if India continues to play dirty, then, China needs to up the ante, there are several factions all over India who desire independence.
 

Temstar

Brigadier
Registered Member
It was a massive mistake for China IMO to not press ahead in 1962 and pull back after winning the fight. China needs to either resolve all outstanding border issues with India and neutralize the threat politically or if India continues to play dirty, then, China needs to up the ante, there are several factions all over India who desire independence.
Supply lines back then wouldn't support any longer campaign, or even long term occupation for that matter. 1962 war also occurred mostly during the window of opportunity during the Cuban Missile Crisis while US and USSR was too busy. Had it gone on any longer it would have attracted attention from them and complicate things.
 

Sardaukar20

Captain
Registered Member
The Carl Gustav have not been considered effective against the front armor of MBTs since probably the 1960s in Sweden. Most things on the battlefield are not tanks however and there is where it's use is.
Same argument can be made for the RPG-7 today. Only, it's vastly cheaper than the Carl Gustav. No Indian-made Carl Gustav is gonna be that cheap. Its still a Saab product.
 

Sardaukar20

Captain
Registered Member
It was a massive mistake for China IMO to not press ahead in 1962 and pull back after winning the fight. China needs to either resolve all outstanding border issues with India and neutralize the threat politically or if India continues to play dirty, then, China needs to up the ante, there are several factions all over India who desire independence.
It was not a massive mistake to not press ahead. China in 1962 could not afford to supply a garrison force to defend it's gains in such inhospitable terrain. The infrastructure and economy at that time wouldn't have been sufficient for the task. Plus a long war with India is not what China desires in 1962. There are more pressing issues at that time.

But now in 2022, China has the infrastructure, technology, manpower, and economy to hold it's gains. It has been demonstrated since 2020. China was able to decisively retake and keep most of its territories in Aksai Chin. The PLA was able to advance over a broad front within days, and then sustain a garrison presence ever since. It astounded the Indians. It was also an indirect stern warning to India. Anymore monkey tricks, and India could permanently lose control over their claimed disputed territories.
 
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twineedle

Junior Member
Registered Member
It was not a massive mistake to not press ahead. China in 1962 could not afford to supply a garrison force to defend it's gains in such inhospitable terrain. The infrastructure and economy at that time wouldn't have been sufficient for the task. Plus a long war with India is not what China desires in 1962. There are more pressing issues at that time.

But now in 2022, China has the infrastructure, technology, manpower, and economy to hold it's gains. It has been demonstrated since 2020. China was able to decisively retake and keep most of its territories in Aksai Chin. The PLA was able to advance over a broad front within days, and then sustain a garrison presence ever since. It astounded the Indians. It was also an indirect stern warning to India. Anymore monkey tricks, and India could permanently lose control over their claimed disputed territories.
To which specific territories are you referring? China has withdrawn from all the 2020 standoff points as a result of mutual disengagement, with buffer zones also extending into the Chinese side of the lac.
 

Sardaukar20

Captain
Registered Member
To which specific territories are you referring? China has withdrawn from all the 2020 standoff points as a result of mutual disengagement, with buffer zones also extending into the Chinese side of the lac.
I'll state my point. Aksai Chin and South Tibet were Chinese territories since the Qing dynasty. It could possibly even go all the way back to the Yuan dynasty. There was no nation or empire called 'India' back then when China owned those lands. Indian claims today are based entirely on the false claims of the British Raj. If it wasn't for the British Raj, India wouldn't even be in control of the 7 sisters states in the Northeast. Those states actually were taken away from the old Burmese Empire by the British Raj. So, the modern nation state of India is practically a construct of British colonial legacy.

Today, China holds almost all of its territories in Aksai Chin save for some buffer zone. It's the Indians who were ones who had to withdraw further from most of the defacto border to form a buffer zone for China. This has been debated and pointed out in hundreds of pages in the Ladakh Standoff thread. No need debate about this topic anymore.

You'll never agree with this for sure. So, let's agree to disagree.
 

Sardaukar20

Captain
Registered Member
Has India finally gotten its big arms export deal?

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India is set to export one of its prized possessions, the “Pinaka” missile system, to conflict-ridden Armenia, just days after recording the highest-ever defense export that swelled by a staggering 334% over the last five years.
Really?

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India has reportedly signed a $250 million deal to export arms and ammunition to Armenia, which is currently engaged in a tense stand-off with its neighbour Azerbaijan.

According to the Economic Times newspaper, India will be sending indigenously developed multi-barrel Pinaka launchers, anti-tank rockets, and other range of ammunitions to the former Soviet region.
For real?

Even Public Radio Armenian is saying something about this:
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India has signed a significant export order for missiles, rockets and ammunition to Armenia,
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reports.

According to the source, the government to government route was used to sign a number of contracts for the supply of arms and ammunition to Armenia earlier this month.

While the value of the contracts has not been revealed, it is estimated that weapons worth over Rs 2,000 crore (about $244 million) will be supplied to the country over the coming months.

The Armenian side is yet to confirm the news.
So the Armenian side has not said anything official yet. This news apparently only came from the Indian media. So we shall see if this is really happening, or if this is another one of those 'Tejas deal' news.
 
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