Hong-Kong Protests

manqiangrexue said:

This is not 1997. China was very far behind in 1997 and you could be very smart and educated but have nowhere to use your talents in China. Today, if you are a talented Chinese, there is nowhere in the world where you could develop better than in China. This is the reality for the rich and educated Chinese today; for different than in 1997. The people who we don't want to leave are those who are talented and would love to contribute to China but would go elsewhere for an easier life/better opportunities. These are not them. Once again, these people hate China and want to be somewhere else; they won't be contributors to China anyway. They'll just be leeches in China serving Western interests.

Let them go. Forcing them to stay is like holding in a dump just to deprive the grass of fertilizer. China has more than enough people and would be much better off if all the hanjian left and we could house patriots in the space they occupied. The UK can take them and be uncomfortable. They don't really want Asians, especially not those who just complain all day, and the Hong Kongers who make it there can feel first hand what it's like to be discriminated against by the ones they held on a pedestal. It's an educational opportunity that there's no place like home.

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People didn’t leave for lack of economic opportunities back then. They left because they were scared of the CCP. Same as today, people wanting to leave not because UK has better prospects, but again for political reasons.

But I agree, once these HKers settle in the UK, and experience first hand the racism in Europe, they may regret their decisions.

A better destination, from their perspective, is Taiwan.

Petrolicious88 said:

People didn’t leave for lack of economic opportunities back then. They left because they were scared of the CCP. Same as today, people wanting to leave not because UK has better prospects, but again for political reasons.

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Of course in 1997, many left for economic opportunity, both in Hong Kong and in the Mainland. In any case, the argument is the same. If they are scared of the CCP, they cannot be good contributors to China and it's best they leave. Yeah, they take their stuff with them but all and all, it's better that anyone who doesn't want to contribute to China leave China. It's like if you have a delicious chocolate banana milkshake but someone put a squirt of diarrhea in it, you just throw the whole thing away; you don't pander and hesitate not wanting to waste the chocolate and the banana that's in it.

manqiangrexue said:

Of course in 1997, many left for economic opportunity, both in Hong Kong and in the Mainland. In any case, the argument is the same. If they are scared of the CCP, they cannot be good contributors to China and it's best they leave. Yeah, they take their stuff with them but all and all, it's better that anyone who doesn't want to contribute to China leave China. It's like if you have a delicious chocolate banana milkshake but someone put a squirt of diarrhea in it, you just throw the whole thing away; you don't pander and hesitate not wanting to waste the chocolate and the banana that's in it.

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The main reason for them leaving was the handover of Hong Kong to China. That was the main reason. They were scared of the CCP taking control. Economic was secondary.

Secondly, you cannot openly encourage these people to leave. If 300,000 leaves, an additional million might also leave; taking with them their wealth, family, knowledge. How is good for Hong Kong or China in the long term.

Instead, focus on creating better opportunities in Hong Kong. Allow these people easy access to education and job opportunities in Beijing or Shanghai. Let them assimilate themselves.

Petrolicious88 said:

The main reason for them leaving was the handover of Hong Kong to China. That was the main reason. They were scared of the CCP taking control. Economic was secondary.

Secondly, you cannot openly encourage these people to leave. If 300,000 leaves, an additional million might also leave; taking with them their wealth, family, knowledge. How is good for Hong Kong or China in the long term.

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It's the same thing; throw away the chocolate banana diarrhea milkshake. I don't wanna type this over and over again. You're not debating my responses; you're just repeating your flawed point while ignoring my responses. Go reread:

Petrolicious88 said:

Instead, focus on creating better opportunities in Hong Kong. Allow these people easy access to education and job opportunities in Beijing or Shanghai. Let them assimilate themselves.

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You contradict yourself. If they left for fear of the CCP instead of economic reasons, then providing them with economic opportunity is a poor attempt at persuasion. Those who want to go to the mainland for the opportunity to contribute to China will find plenty.

manqiangrexue said:

It's the same thing; throw away the chocolate banana diarrhea milkshake. I don't wanna type this over and over again. You're not debating my responses; you're just repeating your flawed point while ignoring my responses. Go reread:

Hong-Kong Protests

BNO not accepted by China as valid passport from January 31. Sorry if it inconvenience some of us, but this is overall a good development and about time. Why would China recognize a travel document issued by a foreign government on behalf of Chinese Citizen in Chinese territory? You are...

www.sinodefenceforum.com

Hong-Kong Protests

BNO not accepted by China as valid passport from January 31. Sorry if it inconvenience some of us, but this is overall a good development and about time. Why would China recognize a travel document issued by a foreign government on behalf of Chinese Citizen in Chinese territory? You are...

www.sinodefenceforum.com

Hong-Kong Protests

This is not 1997. China was very far behind in 1997 and you could be very smart and educated but have nowhere to use your talents in China. Today, if you are a talented Chinese, there is nowhere in the world where you could develop better than in China. This is the reality for the rich and...

www.sinodefenceforum.com

You contradict yourself. If they left for fear of the CCP instead of economic reasons, then providing them with economic opportunity is a poor attempt at persuasion. Those who want to go to the mainland for the opportunity to contribute to China will find plenty

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Neither China nor the Hong Kong government is encouraging people to leave. In fact, they are doing the opposite. It harms Hong Kong in the long term. U need more explanation

Petrolicious88 said:

Neither China nor the Hong Kong government is encouraging people to leave. In fact, they are doing the opposite.

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That's true. It's the diplomatic response. Governments don't tell their people to get out if they're not patriots.

Petrolicious88 said:

It harms Hong Kong in the long term.

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No, my analysis is still valid. Throw away the diarrhea milkshake. Maybe you'd prefer to drink it after trying to sift out the diarrhea with a straw or something because the other ingredients are so valuable. It's not my recommendation.

Petrolicious88 said:

U need more explanation

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Then you need to reread my posts. I've given far more explanation than your single point: "But these people have stuff" deserves or requires.

manqiangrexue said:

That's true. It's the diplomatic response. Governments don't tell their people to get out if they're not patriots.

No, my analysis is still valid. Throw away the diarrhea milkshake.

Then you need to reread my posts. I've given far more explanation than your single point: "But these people have stuff" deserves.

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Openly encouraging up to 300,000 human capital to leave is not smart economic planning. Beijing knows this. Hong Kong knows this. UK knows this, and is trying to hollow out Hong Kong.

And among the 300,000, only a tiny fraction may be true anti-China radicals. Most are just HKers scared of political change. And it’s understandable, they lived for 150 years under a different political system.

It’s better to have them keep their money and knowledge in Hong Kong than to contribute to the UK.

Petrolicious88 said:

No, you do not want a mass exodus Hong Kongers to the UK. It’s called a brain drain, and they take with them all of their money, which will only help the UK economy. UK is certainly not doing this for humanitarian reasons.

Before the 1997 handover, many HKers also immigrated to Canada, Australia. How many millions of dollars did they take with them.

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Most KongKonger with the wealth and brains have already left once or will leave regardless. But we know many of them will be back as HK offers more opportunities than UK or Vancouver and the trend will continue to grow as China and HK prospers.

Those that are unwilling to contribute to society and some with less bright prospects are the once who will leave and may not return. Many mainland Chinese and contributing people from neighboring countries can compensate for most of the lost manpower if needed. In any case, HK will be a better place if those that cannot contribute to society just leave.

Petrolicious88 said:

Openly encouraging up to 300,000 human capital to leave is not smart economic planning. Beijing knows this. Hong Kong knows this. UK knows this, and is trying to hollow out Hong Kong.

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It's not capital for China if they don't want the best for China and if they do want the best for China, then they wouldn't leave. 300,000 diarrhea milkshakes aren't something you need to keep locked up taking up space because they're capital in chocolate and milk, etc... Beijing has not given a reason; perhaps it wants more time to legally strip them out of their capital and perhaps it's just the diplomatic thing to do to say that you covet all of your citizens even the troublesome ones.

The UK has very hesitantly done this as a gesture of support for democracy. They are not gun-ho to get these people because even with their loyalty, most of them are just violent criminals with no capacity to contribute anything.

Petrolicious88 said:

And among the 300,000, only a tiny fraction may be true anti-China radicals. Most are just HKers scared of political change.

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You need data for this. In a city of 7 million, 300K represents only 4.3% of the population so that number sounds very much like the most radical few.

Petrolicious88 said:

And it’s understandable, they lived for 150 years under a different political system.

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It's not understandable. The average citizen who just wants to go about his business would not be much affected by political change. Only those whose hanjian/criminal activities would be limited by the change would find this a severe enough handicap to uproot their lives and leave.

Petrolicious88 said:

It’s better to have them keep their money and knowledge in Hong Kong than to contribute to the UK.

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The UK is not a competitor and most of these people have nothing to contribute except trouble. You keep your diarrhea milkshakes and drink them everyday. I'm very ok with tossing out some chocolate and bananas to avoid consuming feces.

I stand corrected. According to the BBC. It is 2.9 million eligible with a further 2.3 million dependents eligible.

So the question has up be asked. With over 5 million people eligible, why or why only up to 300,000 thousands (barely 6%) is likely to escape dictatorship and tyranny to come to the beacon of "freedom and democracy,' the land of 'fair play and Queensbury rule' the land of plenty, and milk and honey? Especially when Great Britain has open door policy to the Hong Kongers at last, because it finally developed a conscience?!

Here's the BBC.

Special UK visa for Hong Kong residents from Sunday

Published4 hours ago

About 300,000 people are expected to leave Hong Kong for Britain using a new visa route which opens on Sunday.

Hong Kong's British National (Overseas) passport holders and their immediate dependants will be able to apply for the visa using a smartphone app.

But the Chinese foreign ministry said it will no longer recognise the BNO passport as a travel document.

It will not be accepted as proof of identity, China said, and they "reserve the right to take further measures".

The visa was announced in July after China imposed a new security law in Hong Kong.

Beijing has previously warned the UK not to meddle in domestic issues.

Prime Minister Boris Johnson said the move honoured the UK's "profound ties of history and friendship" with the ex-British colony.

About 7,000 people from Hong Kong have already been allowed to settle in the UK since July, the Home Office said.

Those who apply and secure the visa will be able to apply for settlement after five years and then British citizenship after a further 12 months.

The Hong Kong migrants fleeing to the UKCan Hong Kong residents now live in the UK?

Although there are 2.9 million citizens eligible to move to the UK, with a further estimated 2.3 million dependants, the government expects about 300,000 people to take up the offer in the first five years.

The 7,000 who have already arrived were allowed to settle before the scheme began by being granted Leave Outside the Rules, which gives the government discretion over immigration rules on compassionate grounds.

Mr Johnson said: "I am immensely proud that we have brought in this new route for Hong Kong BNOs to live, work and make their home in our country.

"In doing so we have honoured our profound ties of history and friendship with the people of Hong Kong, and we have stood up for freedom and autonomy - values both the UK and Hong Kong hold dear."

Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesman Zhao Lijian called the scheme a violation of China's sovereignty and gross interference in Hong Kong and China's internal affairs, the country's state-affiliated news website The Paper reported.

"The British side disregarded the fact that Hong Kong returned to China 24 years ago," he said.

China will no longer recognise the BNO passport from Sunday. It is not yet clear what this move will mean.

Hong Kongers use their own Hong Kong passport or ID card to leave the city. To enter mainland China, they need to use their Home Return Permit, issued by Chinese immigration, unless they use a full foreign passport and apply for a visa to enter as a foreigner.

The only time they might use a BNO is upon arrival into the UK, or another country that recognises the document.

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