Hong-Kong Protests


Nobonita Barua

Junior Member
Registered Member
Sounds like you might have been a victim of child abuse when you were younger, sorry to hear that. :(
You are sorry to hear about abuse? Like you were sorry about George Floyd & thousands before him? You are always sorry for something.
I thought abusing is one category of freedom of expression guaranted by constitution of United States not of America.
Specializing in discipline is considered abuse in USA? That's not surprising though. I mean, we can pretty much figure that out watching drama of US military business company for last couple of decades. Dudes really like to act tough in front of blindfolded & handcuffed peoples.
 
Crash was saying he and his friends were planning to go back to China to "benefit" it. I don't mind where people choose to go to work, but if they say they're doing it to help others I'd like to know if he's going to take a lower paid job to help out those who most need it or if he's just going to look after himself by taking the highest paid job available. I'm not aware that China is suffering from a shortage of airline pilots.
So what's your point? If you don't care where people work and you don't know how much they're paid, then shut your ignorant nosy mouth.

You'd assume all that because your child bought some crayons?

If your parents would punish you for buying crayons it sounds like you were a victim of child abuse when you were younger, sorry to hear that. :(
Yeah, that's about the only way a Westerner could argue that China was less free, which is to take something massively out of context and try to characterize China with that. If she was arrested for buying crayons, then you can get up from your lunch break, shoot someone, and claim the police arrested you for eating lunch.

If someone was arrested in Hong Kong, they broke the national security law. If not, it will be cleared up and they will be fine. She was arrested for fleeing the police, not for buying crayons. Also, you asked about running from the police, which is a crime in every country. Nice attempted straw man argument... but you ain't slick.

Yes, if I was arrested while fleeing the police, I'd be punished by my parents; I see yours encourages criminal activity and you at least encourage criminal activity in others.

That doesn't happen in the country I live in. Seriously, do you think the world consists of just China and America?
Well, the country you live in is also a nobody with no ambitions; it is not qualified to compare with China. America is the only Western country that has the scope to compare with China and it's the country that yours admires and obeys so that's the comparison I make.
 
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One other thought. People like Crash8pilot who live(d) in democratic countries enjoyed freedoms they took for granted. For example, in China apps like Whatsapp are banned. So you need to use Wechat. But if other countries had the same rules as China, people like Crash couldn't use Wechat to talk with people in China. Similarly, I guess when he was in the US and UK, he didn't just read domestic newspapers, but he used his freedoms to read pro-CCP newspapers and watch pro-China news channels on the TV. He didn't need a VPN and he had the legal right to watch what he wanted. If he used the internet to express his views, they weren't censored for being pro-CCP or anti-US/UK.

That's totally fine, but to say things like "those freedoms are worthless" is peculiar if you're using them on a regular basis.
Just follow the laws of the land. Doesn't mean it's a good trade to get those at the cost of massive police brutality and discrimination.

You'd assume all that because your child bought some crayons?

If your parents would punish you for buying crayons it sounds like you were a victim of child abuse when you were younger, sorry to hear that. :(
And by the way, I'd never heard of the crayon story before I read your crap and I instantly knew that it was fake because you're so full of shit in every one of your posts. I do a quick search and what do I find? A video of a girl running from the police before they subdue her. And if it was in America, she'd have broken bones from 3 grown men with their knees on her body. She probably ran because her criminal influences told her to disrespect the police and just run cus there's so many of you they won't catch you. Now she learned that they're full of shit too.
 

supersnoop

Junior Member
Registered Member
Thank you for sharing your story, from someone growing up in HK but living in the West now. You and @Gatekeeper let us come to know there are Hong Kongers that are quite different from what the MSM portrait.

Here is
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written by a young Chinese American lady growing up in the US and has had witnessed the changes in China over the last two decades. Her sentiment in the article can echo yours above, although they're not exactly the same. I actually came across this piece via a recent opinion piece in Financial Time by former Singapore UN Ambassador
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in which he linked this one.

It's an interesting read that is very difficult to find in today's MSM.
Question for the indigenous folks, were you guys granted some kind of special settlement rights in UK that non-villagers don't have? Also, enjoy your I hope you enjoy your "small house", lol.

Similar to the article writer, I was born and raised overseas (Canada).

I think her article was pretty much on point. My own observations over the years below. Skip to the last paragraph for conclusions.

In the mid 90’s, I visited China (Beijing) for the first time in my life. It was like 10 years behind the Canada. The airport still used those flipboards to update departures and arrivals, XJ Jeep Cherokees and B2 VW Santanas roamed the streets.

Contrast this to 90’s HK, and going there was like 10 years in the future. Portable CD players when cassette Walkmans were still the norm in North America. All the latest and greatest Nintendo games (although in Japanese). Hi8 video cameras that weren’t the size of an encyclopedia (dated references intended)! Not using paper tickets on the subway (still common in Toronto at the time), but reusable plastic cards (not the NFC Octopus yet though).

(Aside, I also visited Taipei during this time. I would say at the time it was definitely ahead of China, but distinctly felt not as cosmopolitan as HK. CKS airport, before it was renamed in a silly DPP desinoization/de-KMT porgrom, was definitely not as nice as the then-new Chek Lop Kok)

By late 2000's/early 2010's, big cities in China are thoroughly modern places. Contrast to the old Santana's and Cherokees of 10/15 years ago, my hotel was sandwiched between a Bentley and Ferrari dealership. Airport was thoroughly modern and expanded, so big now that a tram was required to go between terminals. (Another aside, direct flights to Taiwan from Mainland!) HK no longer has that modern impression.

Long story short, things are just different. What is "freedom" worth? It is not tangible. What is the trade-off? In the US/UK, it is/was literally life for some people in the case of the pandemic. What is eliminating widespread illiteracy and hunger/poverty worth? That was a reality in old China and old HK. I know people who have gone from HK/China to Canada, back to HK/China, and some back to Canada again. Great that I can post crap against Trudeau here without being arrested. That doesn't feed my family or put a roof over my head. Politics are 0.001% of life. If you are Chinese and calling Xi Jinping Winnie the pooh is high on your list of life priorities, you can move to the USA and probably get a pat on the head from Tom KKKotton, CCP is not stopping you. There is no "right" answer, just what you prefer.
 

Gatekeeper

Major
Registered Member
If that were the case, one should go to the US to be a doctor; but those who value their freedoms and honor go to China even for a heavy pay cut. Unfathomable for someone with a Western-rotted mind like yours even when told by Chinese people who have lived all over the world, eh? Having fun talking to yourself validating your own assumptions? LOL


I'd apologize profusely to the police and promise to be a better father for raising human trash that not only doesn't support the country but has become a burden and tool of hostile foreigners. But I'm not worried; my family specializes in discipline and we have never faltered in educating our kids.

Presumably, if your child was protesting peacefully against police killings when s/he was beaten and tear-gassed before shoved into an unmarked van by people with no badges or documentation, you'd be cool with that and still go on rapping about how much "freedoms" you have. LOL
Like I said before, our friend from the A-Team have selective eyesights and hearing from the rest of the human race. He some how gets upset with the Hong Kong police treatments of the rioters, yet it's perfectly ok with all the killings and police brutality in the US.
 

Gatekeeper

Major
Registered Member
So what's your point? If you don't care where people work and you don't know how much they're paid, then shut your ignorant nosy mouth.


Yeah, that's about the only way a Westerner could argue that China was less free, which is to take something massively out of context and try to characterize China with that. If she was arrested for buying crayons, then you can get up from your lunch break, shoot someone, and claim the police arrested you for eating lunch.

If someone was arrested in Hong Kong, they broke the national security law. If not, it will be cleared up and they will be fine. She was arrested for fleeing the police, not for buying crayons. Also, you asked about running from the police, which is a crime in every country. Nice attempted straw man argument... but you ain't slick.

Yes, if I was arrested while fleeing the police, I'd be punished by my parents; I see yours encourages criminal activity and you at least encourage criminal activity in others.


Well, the country you live in is also a nobody with no ambitions; it is not qualified to compare with China. America is the only Western country that has the scope to compare with China and it's the country that yours admires and obeys so that's the comparison I make.
Typical delusional member of the A-Team living a walter Miitty world. He claims he's from the UK if I remember some of his post. And if so the claim that people get brutal treatment from the police doesn't happen is a shameful lie! I've personally seen police brutality and violence on the street of the UK. His whiter than white dillusion is too much for all to see here.
 

Gatekeeper

Major
Registered Member
Just follow the laws of the land. Doesn't mean it's a good trade to get those at the cost of massive police brutality and discrimination.


And by the way, I'd never heard of the crayon story before I read your crap and I instantly knew that it was fake because you're so full of shit in every one of your posts. I do a quick search and what do I find? A video of a girl running from the police before they subdue her. And if it was in America, she'd have broken bones from 3 grown men with their knees on her body. She probably ran because her criminal influences told her to disrespect the police and just run cus there's so many of you they won't catch you. Now she learned that they're full of shit too.
She would have been shot 7 times in the back. It's funny you don't hear any thing from him about this?
 

crash8pilot

Junior Member
Registered Member
Question for the indigenous folks, were you guys granted some kind of special settlement rights in UK that non-villagers don't have? Also, enjoy your I hope you enjoy your "small house", lol.
We don't have settlement rights in the UK, only eligible for BNO. That said the Brits had a scheme to grant full British Citizenship for 50,000 Hong Kong families under the recommendation of the Hong Kong Governor back in 1990. Since both my parents completed university studies in the UK and worked in favorable industries, they were granted British Citizenship. That's how I subsequently inherited British Citizenship alongside my status as a Hong Kong Permanent Resident when I was born. The scheme really was a way to "steal" investment from the "upperclassmen of Hong Kong", which is very much like what Foreign Minister Dominic Raab is proposing right now in response to the National Security Law and a need to pump in money into the British economy after Brexit. Anyways many of these families used the scheme to immigrate before the Handover, but funny enough a lot of these families find themselves back in Hong Kong now (at least that's been the case of most of our "upperclass" family friends).

In the mid 90’s, I visited China (Beijing) for the first time in my life. It was like 10 years behind the Canada. The airport still used those flipboards to update departures and arrivals, XJ Jeep Cherokees and B2 VW Santanas roamed the streets.
As a pilot, I thought it best to show you how far China has come in the world of aviation. This is Bejing's second and newest airport that just opened this year, Daxing Airport features four runways and is one of the largest single terminal airports in the world. Funny enough the airline that just made me redundant (a certain airline that flies the British Flag) was going to be the first foreign carrier into Daxing prior to the pandemic.


If you went north of Hong Kong up the Pearl River Delta, you'll find Shenzhen. The PRC established it as one of its first Special Economic Zones. They say a picture is worth a million words, and I'll just post this instead:


Shenzhen is the Silicon Valley of China, it is home to tech firms, and is quickly becoming a Fin-tech hub. All I have to say is that the west's understanding of China is quickly becoming outdated. Back in Hong Kong people are saying we've truly returned to China, and I for one am excited for what the PRC has planned for the city with the shackles of the west finally being removed. With trade wars and tech embargos kicking off, I can totally see how the Hong Kong Stock Exchange is leveraged to compete on an even larger scale. Might be wishful thinking, but I could picture corporations delisting off the NYSE or NASDAQ and getting behind the HKSE.

If you are Chinese and calling Xi Jinping Winnie the pooh is high on your list of life priorities, you can move to the USA and probably get a pat on the head from Tom KKKotton, CCP is not stopping you. There is no "right" answer, just what you prefer.
As a pilot, innuendo forms the foundation and backbone of my humor. That said I have to be SOOOOOO careful now of what I say without offending snowflakes and #metoo-rainbow-unicorn liberals alike... So is my speech all that free???
 

Gatekeeper

Major
Registered Member
Question for the indigenous folks, were you guys granted some kind of special settlement rights in UK that non-villagers don't have? Also, enjoy your I hope you enjoy your "small house", lol.

Similar to the article writer, I was born and raised overseas (Canada).

I think her article was pretty much on point. My own observations over the years below. Skip to the last paragraph for conclusions.

In the mid 90’s, I visited China (Beijing) for the first time in my life. It was like 10 years behind the Canada. The airport still used those flipboards to update departures and arrivals, XJ Jeep Cherokees and B2 VW Santanas roamed the streets.

Contrast this to 90’s HK, and going there was like 10 years in the future. Portable CD players when cassette Walkmans were still the norm in North America. All the latest and greatest Nintendo games (although in Japanese). Hi8 video cameras that weren’t the size of an encyclopedia (dated references intended)! Not using paper tickets on the subway (still common in Toronto at the time), but reusable plastic cards (not the NFC Octopus yet though).

(Aside, I also visited Taipei during this time. I would say at the time it was definitely ahead of China, but distinctly felt not as cosmopolitan as HK. CKS airport, before it was renamed in a silly DPP desinoization/de-KMT porgrom, was definitely not as nice as the then-new Chek Lop Kok)

By late 2000's/early 2010's, big cities in China are thoroughly modern places. Contrast to the old Santana's and Cherokees of 10/15 years ago, my hotel was sandwiched between a Bentley and Ferrari dealership. Airport was thoroughly modern and expanded, so big now that a tram was required to go between terminals. (Another aside, direct flights to Taiwan from Mainland!) HK no longer has that modern impression.

Long story short, things are just different. What is "freedom" worth? It is not tangible. What is the trade-off? In the US/UK, it is/was literally life for some people in the case of the pandemic. What is eliminating widespread illiteracy and hunger/poverty worth? That was a reality in old China and old HK. I know people who have gone from HK/China to Canada, back to HK/China, and some back to Canada again. Great that I can post crap against Trudeau here without being arrested. That doesn't feed my family or put a roof over my head. Politics are 0.001% of life. If you are Chinese and calling Xi Jinping Winnie the pooh is high on your list of life priorities, you can move to the USA and probably get a pat on the head from Tom KKKotton, CCP is not stopping you. There is no "right" answer, just what you prefer.
Excellent analysis that actually past critical thinking unlike those rant posted by the members of the A-Team.

And what you described China, Taiwan and Hong Kong in the past as compare to China, Taiwan and Hong Kong in present is spot on.

Also if ranting about Xi is Winnie the pooh is your thing, then don't come to China. Otherwise, stop whinning!

We here all have some connection to China or chineseness. Even if it is just interest in China's military development. But for those of us with genuine blood connection, we take the situation of the relationship between the West and China more seriously.

Now with regards to indigenous folks. Yes we have additional benefits 'granted' by the British. But it is something that we indigenous fought and died for. It wasn't granted willingly.

It basically revolve around land rights. When British took over the new territory on the 99 year long lease. They told us, my ancestors, that ALL land belong to the Crown (as in Queen Victoria). But all villages are farming the land. Anyway cut long story short. After a few battles with the law enforcement. A compromise was agreed. That is:

The land still belongs to the Crown, but indigenous people are allowed to farm and house the land but must pay a 'peppercorns' rent to the Crown. So when I was a young boy, I remember my nan took me to the government office and pay our rent for a year for our land of 1 feng (a voucher) which is 1/10th of a cent. I for the life of me couldn't understand such a denomination. The smallest denomination at the time was 5 cent coin. That was my first encounter with peppercorn rent.

Also, in addition, all male born to indigenous family have rights to build houses on their own land (something no one else is allowed). This is of a real value. As of today, this right is saleable. I've been approach to sell mine for approx £60,000. I, of course do not want to sell my heritage. But I've known many others have. This right is passed down to my children even though they were born in the UK. But it is one generation only.
 

Mr T

Senior Member
Long story short, things are just different. What is "freedom" worth? It is not tangible.
It's tangible for Meng Wanzhou. Due to Canada's independent judiciary and good legal rights, not only has she been granted the right to stay out on parole whilst her extradition proceedings are ongoing, but they've been very detailed and methodical, ongoing for more than a year now. If she'd been in China facing extradition to Thailand, she'd have been on a plane very quickly.

Contrast that with Cheng Lei who has been placed in "residential surveillance". No one apart from the Chinese state knows where she is, which also suggests she doesn't have access to a lawyer. The whole thing is bizarre given she worked for CGTN and wasn't exactly a controversial character. But she's clearly annoyed someone powerful, so now she has no rights.

What is eliminating widespread illiteracy and hunger/poverty worth? That was a reality in old China and old HK.
Briefly on Hong Kong, things haven't been that great since 1997. Property prices have skyrocketed and wages haven't kept up. Maybe there was a short-lived blip where poverty rates went down, but relative poverty is bad. Even the HK government admits that over 1 million people in the city are below the poverty line.

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As for mainland China, things have got significantly better for city dwellers for sure. But the end of the iron ricebowl also hit rural communities. The idea that (mainland) China has or is on course to eliminate poverty is just not true. The CCP sets the poverty rate at 2,300 yuan a year. That's less than $1 a day. Whereas the World Bank defines "extreme poverty" as having less than $1.90 a day.

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I can understand why some people believe what the CCP is saying about ending poverty, but when you look at the numbers the position isn't justifiable.

Great that I can post crap against Trudeau here without being arrested. That doesn't feed my family or put a roof over my head. Politics are 0.001% of life.
Other people's ability to criticise Trudeau doesn't take food out of your family's mouths or take away your home. Just because you don't feel the need for a right doesn't mean it's ok to deny it to others.

That's why countries like Canada have certain rights and freedoms. They're not custom-made to look out for you and your family, they're there to protect anyone who needs them. The fact you don't need a particular right at this very moment does not mean you would not want to benefit from it in the future.

For example, I can understand if you tell me you've never been arrested by the police and don't think you ever will be - I haven't been arrested either. However, if you were arrested by the police and charged in error or maliciously with a crime you didn't commit, you would definitely want the right to:

1. seek bail and not have it automatically refused by a judge because that was government policy/the government didn't like you;
2. have access to and select your own lawyer, rather than have one appointed by the state who told you to plead guilty because that's what the state tells them to tell you;
3. cross-examine all witnesses and see all evidence; and
4. have your case decided by a jury and judge that were independent and would not convict you just because the police said you were guilty.

This would be especially the case if it was your partner or child. It's simply not credible that you would be content with the Chinese system of "if you get charged, you're fked" and tell them it was for the greater good.

If you are Chinese and calling Xi Jinping Winnie the pooh is high on your list of life priorities, you can move to the USA
Not if the police take away your passport and/or issue you with an exit ban. The issue isn't just that the CCP doesn't want you saying bad things about them in China, it's that they usually won't let you leave if they find out about it, because they want to intimidate people staying in China.
 

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