Hong-Kong Protests

weig2000

Captain
My career goal was to work my way back east, and as a commercial pilot there just weren't opportunities or openings in Hong Kong when I qualified with my wings, unless I was an experienced expat pilot. So yes me wanting to go back makes sense both financially and in terms of career progression, but more importantly what's been unfolding the past few years only makes my heart bleed China red. I remember the envy I once had for America and the west when I came to study abroad, but now that I'm on the ground I must say that the grass most certainly isn't greener over here.

I'm not gonna name names, but let's just say the airline I worked for flew the British Union Jack. BoJo and his goons have not only killed off the recovery of my industry, they've done bugger all to help its very own national flag carrier. Might've been something to do with the fact the airline is run by a holding company based in Spain I suppose, but I digress. Yay democracy. :rolleyes: :mad:

We have a saying, 為中華民族發揚光大 (rough translation: to shine for our Chinese brothers and sisters), and I'm sick and tired of the west downplaying accomplishments by the Chinese nation state (and not just the PRC, I'd like to highlight the accomplishments of my fellow Chinese brethren that went abroad to broaden our skills and experience) because our government wasn't democratically elected, and therefore our accomplishments are illegitimate. Pardon my French, but that is complete utter horse shit. Newsflash: The PRC has managed to level the playing field (and in certain areas superceed) with the West in a mere seven decades of existence as a nation. Perhaps it might be time to take off the tinted glasses, shake our hand to say fair play, recognize how far we've come, and dare I even suggest reflect that perhaps the west may very well be on the decline? (Surely you can't tell me going from Trump to Biden is progress? Not like Biden has the election in the bag anyway.) I'm not saying democracy is useless and the Chinese brand of communism should be enforced worldwide, which is seemingly the narative the West is painting. I'm saying that the ability to vote doesn't provide legitimacy to a politician. I'd argue the guy behind the PRC wheel seems legitimate based on his competence as a statesman, and more importantly what he's managed to accomplish.

We have a saying in Hong Kong 身有屎, which basically you've got something to hide, or you're full of crap. All I have to say that most of the "highly-skilled and wealthy Chinese" you described pretty much fall under this category. Trust me I've got plenty of Facebook "friends" that whine about how they can't hack it in Hong Kong, the illegitimacy of One Country Two Systems, and how everything will be rainbows and unicorns when they immigrate. On the other hand there are many folks I went to school with in Hong Kong that ended up studying abroad. Some even stayed behind like myself - they're all now lawyers, doctors, investment bankers... essentially high skilled sought after talent, but more importantly share similar sentiments about how the west is brainwashing the masses, dragging the good name of Hong Kong and China down the gutter. Might I present you the other side to the coin and say that for those of us that "have went to the bolt hole", well we're looking to come back to the Motherland.

Thank you for sharing your story, from someone growing up in HK but living in the West now. You and @Gatekeeper let us come to know there are Hong Kongers that are quite different from what the MSM portrait.

Here is
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written by a young Chinese American lady growing up in the US and has had witnessed the changes in China over the last two decades. Her sentiment in the article can echo yours above, although they're not exactly the same. I actually came across this piece via a recent opinion piece in Financial Time by former Singapore UN Ambassador
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
in which he linked this one.

It's an interesting read that is very difficult to find in today's MSM.
 

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
  1. Vote in national elections and, depending on the country, vote directly for the head of state
  2. Stand in elections against the ruling party, again as appropriate even as head of state
  3. Form new political parties that conflict with the ruling party
  4. Sue the government (with a chance of winning)
  5. Protest government policy openly
  6. Practice your personal beliefs as you see fit, not as the government wants
  7. Set up a newspaper, TV station or web-based outlet even if you publish content the ruling party doesn't like
  8. Criticise and/or satirise the government openly without being censored and then get a visit from the police
  9. Actually own your own home, which isn't possible in China because all you get is a lease the government can revoke whenever it likes
  10. No social credit score to control your behaviour
  11. No need to slip an official some banknotes to get lawful business done

US politicians only pay lip service to it's constituents. Both parties are largely beholden to Wall Street, Military-Industrial Complex, and big Corporation interests. They don't truly represent the people.

Also, mainstream corporate media is owned by a few oligarchs that have deep ties with Washington elites. You can see the near lock-step on propaganda against Iraq in the lead up to Iraqi invasion, every US media outlet was spewing the same shit. Now there is virtually no reporting or investigation into why we are STILL in Iraq with over 3000 troops. It's never mentioned in mainstream Western media after almost 20 years occupation and trillions of dollars spent over an illegal offensive war. That is US MSM.

The reality is US professes to be free, but reality it's not as free as they claim, many politicians are bought by corporate special interests.
 

supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
US politicians only pay lip service to it's constituents. Both parties are largely beholden to Wall Street, Military-Industrial Complex, and big Corporation interests. They don't truly represent the people.

Also, mainstream corporate media is owned by a few oligarchs that have deep ties with Washington elites. You can see the near lock-step on propaganda against Iraq in the lead up to Iraqi invasion, every US media outlet was spewing the same shit. Now there is virtually no reporting or investigation into why we are STILL in Iraq with over 3000 troops. It's never mentioned in mainstream Western media after almost 20 years occupation and trillions of dollars spent over an illegal offensive war. That is US MSM.

The reality is US professes to be free, but reality it's not as free as they claim, many politicians are bought by corporate special interests.

Summary version: money over everything (MOET).

Voting is less meaningful than being rich.

One example I always like to point out is the healthcare system in the US. Rich companies and shareholders don’t want to see their profits diverted away, so somehow the media and politicians have convinced most of the poor people who could benefit the most from reform into voting against their own best interests.

Another example is the idea of rule of law. In theory, it means you can go to court to fight the law or other parties that you have grievances with. In practice/reality, it just means rule of money. Whoever can afford the best lawyers can bend the legal system to their advantage. Many black people complain that the legal system is stacked against them due to their race. But it’s also an economic issue. OJ Simpson is a rich black man, could afford great lawyers and got off.
 

crash8pilot

Junior Member
Registered Member
Thank you for sharing your story, from someone growing up in HK but living in the West now. You and @Gatekeeper let us come to know there are Hong Kongers that are quite different from what the MSM portrait.

Here is
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
written by a young Chinese American lady growing up in the US and has had witnessed the changes in China over the last two decades. Her sentiment in the article can echo yours above, although they're not exactly the same. I actually came across this piece via a recent opinion piece in Financial Time by former Singapore UN Ambassador
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
in which he linked this one.

It's an interesting read that is very difficult to find in today's MSM.
I was born a couple years before the Handover, so what I know of Hong Kong was fairly modern and liberalized. However my family are indigenous people, my ancestors migrated south, forming part of a village settlement just under Lion Rock during the Ming dynasty (so in fact I have a more legitimate claim of being a "Hong Kong-er" than these protesting punks!). While my grandparents weren't born when the Brits forced the signing of the unfair treaties that saw Hong Kong colonized, I was told stories of the utterly disgusting war atrocities the Japanese committed in their occupation of Hong Kong during the Second World War, as well as how the Brits swooped in after the Japs surrendered, pretending like nothing happened as they continued with their racist and outright shameless acts of bullying of the people of Hong Kong.

Those protesting back home today really don't know how good they have it now. Had they known what previous generations had to put up with, they'd appreciate the freedoms and liberties One Country Two Systems affords, as well as the tolerance/restrain the PRC government has been showing despite the protests. Although the mainstream media portrayal of my homeland make me mad, hearing what they have to say makes me feel proud as hell of being Chinese and my family heritage (Something I didn't think I'd be saying when I left to study abroad). A rising sentiment shared amongst many of my peers, and yet drowned out by the endless echos of human rights abuse and oppression of freedom from the media. The garbage coming out or Trump, his lackey Pompeo, and Dominic Raab are not only getting predictable, quite honestly it is becoming an utterly boring and unfounded narrative that highlights their complete incompetence.

Truth be told China benefited from One Country Two Systems as much as Hong Kong and the leaching west does. When the Sino British Joint Declaration was signed, Deng Xiaoping recognized that China still fell behind the rest of the world. So while the PRC inherited a "democratic" system in Hong Kong, they needed it as a gateway benchmark model to play catchup with the west. The idea of the system not changing for 50 years is not that Hong Kong becomes full on communism in 2047, but rather it would take China that long to catch up. The media still portrays the Mainland as indigenous, almost bordering on third-world country... And those protesting in Hong Kong have been brainwashed to believe the same. However if you went up the Pearl River today into Shenzen, well quite frankly they've already overtaken us as an upscale high tech metropolitan hub that would have urban developers and politicians alike foaming at the mouth. Perhaps it is our turn to start playing catchup and get with the Motherland's game plan for Hong Kong.
 

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
Thank you for sharing your story, from someone growing up in HK but living in the West now. You and @Gatekeeper let us come to know there are Hong Kongers that are quite different from what the MSM portrait.

Here is
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
written by a young Chinese American lady growing up in the US and has had witnessed the changes in China over the last two decades. Her sentiment in the article can echo yours above, although they're not exactly the same. I actually came across this piece via a recent opinion piece in Financial Time by former Singapore UN Ambassador
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
in which he linked this one.

It's an interesting read that is very difficult to find in today's MSM.

The thing was Hong Kong people was never that hostile to our brothers over the borders. In fact, people in Hong Kong have protested against British colonial rule on numerous occasions.

Sure, there's the anti CCP pro KMT usual suspect when I was growing up in Hong Kong. This is because these are people betting on the wrong side during the civil war. Most of these are from Shanghai. They have lost their livelihood and everthing. So they are very bitter, and pass on their bitterness to their children. During this time Hong Kong population exploded because of these pro KMT supporters. Us indigenous population never had issues with CCP. We may not be pro or anti. But we certainly think it's our government. And we are all Chinese. In my grandfather's house, we have a painting of the summer palace hanging proudly. Some others would have portrait of Mao.

There was never much resentment as compares with today. I remember they mostly get their KMT flag out during oct 10th celebration. That when I noticed there were so many of them. Still hostility is controlled and mild compares to what happened recently.

This is because after the hand over, foreign agency have targeted the youth through educational establishment to indoctrinated these poor souls. It's a 25 years project bearing fruit in recent event.
 

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
However my family are indigenous people, my ancestors migrated south, forming part of a village settlement just under Lion Rock during the Ming dynasty (so in fact I have a more legitimate claim of being a "Hong Kong-er" than these protesting punks!).
The garbage coming out or Trump, his lackey Pompeo, and Dominic Raab are not only getting predictable, quite honestly it is becoming an utterly boring and unfounded narrative that highlights their complete incompetence.

So like me, you're indigenous as well. My ancestral village is about 500 years from Fo Tan station one after sha tin. I can see the widows hill from our house (use to before they built the sky scrapers in front). Our ancestors cone from Changsa in the ching dynasty about 250 years ago.

I like you hate people like Trump and Pompeo and Babbs. They get on their high horse and try to preach to us their holier than thou attitude. But it is not just people like them, they are people in general in the UK that comes up with BS like them because they read the daily mail. Come to think of it, I think we got members like that too.
 

weig2000

Captain
I was born a couple years before the Handover, so what I know of Hong Kong was fairly modern and liberalized. However my family are indigenous people, my ancestors migrated south, forming part of a village settlement just under Lion Rock during the Ming dynasty (so in fact I have a more legitimate claim of being a "Hong Kong-er" than these protesting punks!). While my grandparents weren't born when the Brits forced the signing of the unfair treaties that saw Hong Kong colonized, I was told stories of the utterly disgusting war atrocities the Japanese committed in their occupation of Hong Kong during the Second World War, as well as how the Brits swooped in after the Japs surrendered, pretending like nothing happened as they continued with their racist and outright shameless acts of bullying of the people of Hong Kong.

Those protesting back home today really don't know how good they have it now. Had they known what previous generations had to put up with, they'd appreciate the freedoms and liberties One Country Two Systems affords, as well as the tolerance/restrain the PRC government has been showing despite the protests. Although the mainstream media portrayal of my homeland make me mad, hearing what they have to say makes me feel proud as hell of being Chinese and my family heritage (Something I didn't think I'd be saying when I left to study abroad). A rising sentiment shared amongst many of my peers, and yet drowned out by the endless echos of human rights abuse and oppression of freedom from the media. The garbage coming out or Trump, his lackey Pompeo, and Dominic Raab are not only getting predictable, quite honestly it is becoming an utterly boring and unfounded narrative that highlights their complete incompetence.

Truth be told China benefited from One Country Two Systems as much as Hong Kong and the leaching west does. When the Sino British Joint Declaration was signed, Deng Xiaoping recognized that China still fell behind the rest of the world. So while the PRC inherited a "democratic" system in Hong Kong, they needed it as a gateway benchmark model to play catchup with the west. The idea of the system not changing for 50 years is not that Hong Kong becomes full on communism in 2047, but rather it would take China that long to catch up. The media still portrays the Mainland as indigenous, almost bordering on third-world country... And those protesting in Hong Kong have been brainwashed to believe the same. However if you went up the Pearl River today into Shenzen, well quite frankly they've already overtaken us as an upscale high tech metropolitan hub that would have urban developers and politicians alike foaming at the mouth. Perhaps it is our turn to start playing catchup and get with the Motherland's game plan for Hong Kong.
The thing was Hong Kong people was never that hostile to our brothers over the borders. In fact, people in Hong Kong have protested against British colonial rule on numerous occasions.

Sure, there's the anti CCP pro KMT usual suspect when I was growing up in Hong Kong. This is because these are people betting on the wrong side during the civil war. Most of these are from Shanghai. They have lost their livelihood and everthing. So they are very bitter, and pass on their bitterness to their children. During this time Hong Kong population exploded because of these pro KMT supporters. Us indigenous population never had issues with CCP. We may not be pro or anti. But we certainly think it's our government. And we are all Chinese. In my grandfather's house, we have a painting of the summer palace hanging proudly. Some others would have portrait of Mao.

There was never much resentment as compares with today. I remember they mostly get their KMT flag out during oct 10th celebration. That when I noticed there were so many of them. Still hostility is controlled and mild compares to what happened recently.

This is because after the hand over, foreign agency have targeted the youth through educational establishment to indoctrinated these poor souls. It's a 25 years project bearing fruit in recent event.

My impression had always been there were strong pro-China sentiment or attachment in Hong Kong - not necessarily pro-CCP or even pro-PRC for very understandable reasons. That is, until in recent years, particularly during last year's protest/violent movement. I was struck by the raw hatred and vitriolic attacks against anything mainland China. These had gone beyond political/ideological level, but had felt more at the racial/civilizational level. What is ironic is that these kinds of rhetoric and behaviors were displayed more by the very younger generation - generation that has grown up after the handover, whereas in earlier generations you didn't get this kind of feeling.

I suppose It'll take another 25 years effort to "bring back" the future generations.
 
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montyp165

Junior Member
My impression had always been there were strong pro-China sentiment or attachment in Hong Kong - not necessarily pro-CCP or even pro-PRC for very understandable reasons. That is, until in recent years, particularly during last year's protest/violent movement. I was struck by the raw hatred and vitriolic attacks against anything mainland China. These had gone beyond political/ideological level, but had felt more at the racial/civilizational level. What is ironic is that these kinds of rhetoric and behaviors were displayed more by the very younger generation - generation that has grown up after the handover, whereas in earlier generations you didn't get this kind feeling.

I suppose It'll take another 25 years effort to "bring back" the future generations.

It reminds me of how some Finnish folks I've encountered on the net mentioning how the younger generation is the one that is the most hostile to Russia compared to the generation that actually fought them in WW2, my observation is that the older generation could find common ground with the average Russian whereas the younger folks are all into the ideological identity entitlement politics of "I'm better than you" which creates this ultimately destructive hostility.
 

crash8pilot

Junior Member
Registered Member
So like me, you're indigenous as well. My ancestral village is about 500 years from Fo Tan station one after sha tin. I can see the widows hill from our house (use to before they built the sky scrapers in front). Our ancestors cone from Changsa in the ching dynasty about 250 years ago.
Mine is in Taiwai. That said although I hail from an indigenous family, I'm a bit of a 鬼仔 (to all my non Chinese speaking SDF friends, its basically the Cantonese derogatory term equivalent of the n-word, except we're using it on a white person). I did got to local school (funny enough many of my classmates are children of Hong Kong politicians and other big figure types), but my parents raised me fairly western. English was my first language (I really should be ashamed at where my fluency, or lack thereof, even though I like to think I hold my own in a Canto/Mandarin), despite the fact my grandfather threatened multiple times to cut my balls off if I brought a blonde or brunette home. :p

I like you hate people like Trump and Pompeo and Babbs. They get on their high horse and try to preach to us their holier than thou attitude. But it is not just people like them, they are people in general in the UK that comes up with BS like them because they read the daily mail. Come to think of it, I think we got members like that too.
I was brought up a bit of a righty in the thought of Thatcher and Reagan conservatism. As such I expected so much more out of Trump and May/BoJo (I voted Tory in the last two elections) when they came into power... Safe to say I've been massively disappointed, and it only makes my heart bleed red for the Motherland.

Anyways I've had multiple conversations with my neighbors, friends, and colleagues here in the UK about my thoughts on what's happening to my home. The overwhelming consensus I get is that they've never heard of my side/version of the story. I honestly don't even know what its going to take for our side of the story to be reported by the media, but like you said, it's hard to present your point to someone when they've already made up their mind and are unwilling to listen to what you have to say.

What really bugs me the most is that these so called China and Hong Kong "experts" have:
1) Barely, if not ever, stepped foot into Hong Kong or China (let alone Xinjiang, but I digress) to report whats actually happening on the ground
2) Haven't even bothered to learn the historic facts and their implications on modern developments
3) Add a Chinese translation of their English name onto their Twitter bio to make them seem like they know their shizzle
4) Know a couple Chinese characters (not even any fluency in the language?!), and are able to use CTL+F to find terms in Chineses document that they can twist to fit their anti-PRC narrative
5) Quick to dismiss any rebuttals or opinions that go against their "truth"
6) When faced with someone that might actually be able to go toe-to-toe with them, use their literacy of both spoken and written English to drown out their opponents that most of the time aren't as fluent in English
7) All seemingly backed by political or private interest groups/lobbies, but yet are quoted all over the headlines

Ranting aside, we unfortunately live in a white man's world. I wish something could be done to change it, but I guess that's the way the world is. I've figured the best thing to do is to outperform expectations, and as I mentioned in a previous post, 為中華民族發揚光大 (rough translation: shine for our fellow Chinese brothers and sisters). I'm sure when the world starts recovering from the pandemic (and they come crawling with their tail between their legs begging for foreign investment like David Cameron did with his "Golden Era" with China), at some point they'd have to acknowledge what the Chinese nation state has managed to achieve, and to let our accomplishments drown out the media's anti China narrative.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
I'm quite happy to trade temporary restrictions on when I can go out for a beer with friends in order to avoid having a President/Prime Minister for life that I can't vote out of office.
Tsk tsk, so quickly willing to sacrifice the most basic of freedoms. I'm quite happy to trade useless elections, wasting my time voting in fool after fool fighting against each other for a leadership that keep the country growing quickly and smoothly without fail.
 
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