Germany Carl Zeiss, heart of Dutch ASML Lithography Equipment.


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canniBUS

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If huawei is so prepared, why ren said company have to fight for survival. Sounds desperate.


You said longer. How much longer for 7nm? 5 yrs or 10 yrs. Would they miss the window for 5g expansion?

Alot of times, experiences are important than talent.

If any comparsion, China j20 since 2011 only 25 planes built so far. The time is too long. No good
This poster contributes nothing, spends all day posting FUD. Permanent ban is warranted.
 

adiru

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This poster contributes nothing, spends all day posting FUD. Permanent ban is warranted.
What's FUD? Is that a foul language?
I am just cross examing manqiangrexue like he did to tidalwave . tidalwave didnt want to engage him on nontechnical stuffs but manqiangrexue kept it coming.

Why are you a newbie? Are you a double agent?
 
If huawei is so prepared, why ren said company have to fight for survival. Sounds desperate.
That's the exact thing he said a year ago when the US put its extremely ineffective ban on Huawei. Ren said Huawei would fight for its survival and it's like a plane flying with bullet holes all over it. Then, Huawei won the most 5G contracts in the world and grew 20%. He's a soldier; that's how he talks. He has never told his workers before that everything smooth and cool so they can all relax.
You said longer. How much longer for 7nm? 5 yrs or 10 yrs. Would they miss the window for 5g expansion?
Well, SMIC is saying in the next few months, right? So that's gonna be my estimate. You keep asking if everything fails, then how much longer, and not a person in the world can answer that stupid question. Indefinitely, as long as things fail.
Alot of times, experiences are important than talent.
Often true, but experience can be accumulated and companies/countries do surpass other companies/countries so it doesn't mean that China, which less experience, cannot catch up and surpass.
If any comparsion, China j20 since 2011 only 25 planes built so far. The time is too long. No good
We don't know how many J-20 there are and those are completely unrelated things. If you think no good, then see what you can contribute.
I am just cross examing manqiangrexue like he did to tidalwave
See, this is how a scientist responds to inquiry. Haven't dropped F-bombs or told you to "shut your one trick pony/money mouth", have I?
Why are you a newbie? Are you a double agent?
Wow, both questions made absolutely no sense... Nice.
 

WTAN

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The article posted by Hendrik goes to show that China is the only country in the world that has a complete Semiconductor equipment manufacturing supply chain.
The equipment is not state of the art due to the preference of local FABs for imported equipment. Lack of sales results in lack of funds for R&D and upgrades.
This ban on Huawei has changed the situation overnight.
Local FABs will now seek out these manufacturers to purchase their equipment.
Any local FABs still looking to buy American, Japanese or European equipment would be insane as they could be sanctioned and these machinery would become useless pieces of junk and scrap metal.
This will benefit local equipment manufacturers as they will increase sales and have funds to upgrade.
 

adiru

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That's the exact thing he said a year ago when the US put its extremely ineffective ban on Huawei. Ren said Huawei would fight for its survival and it's like a plane flying with bullet holes all over it. Then, Huawei won the most 5G contracts in the world and grew 20%. He's a soldier; that's how he talks. He has never told his workers before that everything smooth and cool so they can all relax.

Well, SMIC is saying in the next few months, right? So that's gonna be my estimate. You keep asking if everything fails, then how much longer, and not a person in the world can answer that stupid question. Indefinitely, as long as things fail.

Often true, but experience can be accumulated and companies/countries do surpass other companies/countries so it doesn't mean that China, which less experience, cannot catch up and surpass.

We don't know how many J-20 there are and those are completely unrelated things. If you think no good, then see what you can contribute.

See, this is how a scientist responds to inquiry. Haven't dropped F-bombs or told you to "shut your one trick pony/money mouth", have I?
What if huawei cant deliver the goods due to no chips? This time is real sense of danger, no just tough talk. Why you try to brush it off?

I am asking if they got solid backup plan.

I dont think j20 is a success so far. Anyway. Lets leave it aside.

I think you made tidalwave mad because your questions are not genuine science related.
More try to taunt, ridicule, mudslinging.

If your questions genuine i dont think his response be like that
 
What if huawei cant deliver the goods due to no chips? This time is real sense of danger, no just tough talk. Why you try to brush it off?
From what I hear, Huawei has a decent amount of time and 7nm supply as well as 14nm supply from SMIC so that concern of yours is not immediate. There is time for SMEE and SMIC to work. If it truly comes to pass, then Huawei will obviously have to drop its highest end devices and go into lower quality/price smartphones as China completes its lithography/semiconductor research to become truly self-reliant. Even then, the skies don't collapse, we just start again lower, but on much more solid ground. Isn't that obvious?
I am asking if they got solid backup plan.
You need to ask SMIC then. Can people who don't work for SMIC know that? Think...
I dont think j20 is a success so far. Anyway. Lets leave it aside.
Well, then go do what you can for the project. Otherwise, I think everything's not a success cus it's not magically perfect! LOL
I think you made tidalwave mad because your questions are not genuine science related.
More try to taunt, ridicule, mudslinging.

If your questions genuine i dont think his response be like that
Yeah, I'm going to have to question his analysis, which is that against data, he basically always said that Huawei was failing. Also, he had provided no evidence that he is a scientist of the caliber to be useful to Huawei and China. No mudslinging, but just pointing out that the extraordinary claim of him being someone of the level to help Huawei requires significant evidence. He didn't rebut, but went on spray of vulgar oral diarrhea, which I've never seen a highly-educated person resort to. And for the record, I don't think your questions to me are genuine. I think you're lashing out in anger because you lost the one person on this forum who you could talk to about your conspiracy theories and gossip about other members, but nonetheless I will always out-debate you and point out your logical fallacies rather than regress to desperate profanity where logic fails.
 
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Bltizo

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You might have noticed that quite a few people making a lot of noise in this thread are little bitches. I'd just unwatch it and let them keep crying "woe is me!" until they jump off a bridge.
This is a formal warning to you as well as others in this thread.

CEASE ALL PERSONAL ATTACKS and USE OF SWEAR WORDS.

When such cases are brought forwards, they will be judged on the same causes as everyone.
You guys can have disagreements with each other but find some more academic and professional ways to disagree than making personal attacks and using swear words.



For you ZeEa5K, this is a warning and the next time this happens there will be a one month ban.
 
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adiru

Junior Member
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From what I hear, Huawei has a decent amount of time and 7nm supply as well as 14nm supply from SMIC so that concern of yours is not immediate. There is time for SMEE and SMIC to work. If it truly comes to pass, then Huawei will obviously have to drop its highest end devices and go into lower quality/price smartphones as China completes its lithography/semiconductor research to become truly self-reliant. Even then, the skies don't collapse, we just start again lower, but on much more solid ground. Isn't that obvious?

You need to ask SMIC then. Can people who don't work for SMIC know that? Think...

Well, then go do what you can for the project. Otherwise, I think everything's not a success cus it's not magically perfect! LOL

Yeah, I'm going to have to question his analysis, which is that against data, he basically always said that Huawei was failing and that he had provided no evidence that he is a scientist of the caliber to be useful to Huawei and China. No mudslinging, but just pointing out that the extraordinary claim of him being someone of the level to help Huawei requires significant evidence. He didn't rebut, but went on spray of vulgar oral diarrhea. And for the record, I don't think your questions to me are genuine, but I will always out-debate you and point out your logical fallacies rather than regress to desperate profanity where logic fails.
Not so fast.
I think you made fun him that he got dismissed from recent project due hes no good. He said due to insufficient funding which seems reasonable to me. Alot of startup fails due to lack of funding.
I think your attack on him without proofs set him off. I mean its technical thread i dont know why you always want to side track.

Let say SMEE SMIC and China EUV got stuck next year,and huawei parts finished.

Is OK for China to relinquish 5G lead?

5nm parts come onboard next year, huawei has nothing to contend. Start to massive lay off in huawei?

What if US also sanction SMIC? What do you think China should do.?

What if US step up a notch banning ASML DUV also to China. It wont be just SMIC issue anymore.

US can squeeze more
 
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Not so fast.
I think you made fun him that he got dismissed from recent project due hes no good. He said due to insufficient funding which seems reasonable to me. Alot of startup fails due to lack of funding.
I think your attack on him without proofs set him off.
Not in his field. If you have knowledge in a critical field, you'll get the funding in China. If the company didn't have it, then the government will. I don't care if he got angry; he couldn't handle it and went crazy, so he's gone. Not everybody has to be nice to each other here, especially if you that something's fishy about a story, but you do have to control yourself. No matter what anybody says to you, you can report it to a mod if you think he broke the rules, eat it because you can't rebut it, or rebut it intelligently. If you start throwing profanities, then you're out. Simple as that.
Let say SMEE SMIC and China EUV got stuck next year,and huawei parts finished.

Is OK for China to relinquish 5G lead?

5nm parts come onboard next year, huawei has nothing to contend. Start to massive lay off in huawei?

What if US also sanction SMIC? What do you think China should do.?
So basically you're asking me, if every single thing goes wrong for China, what's the bottom line, right? And for some reason, I should entertain this as if I have all the privileged information in China. The best answer is to just watch and see because so many things are going on that we don't know about and China is nothing but depth in terms of talent. But the more entertaining answer is that if everything goes wrong, it all rests on SMEE. Whenever SMEE can get modern lithography to work well, SMIC will be online making the best chips possible with them. The better SMEE is, the better SMIC and Huawei are. TSMC isn't even all that important because it's not independent in its tech. When China figures out the whole chain from lithography its application, that's when China will enter its final unstoppable ascent. It cannot happen before that.

It's simply not intelligent to go further and ask what if all the research efforts fail again and again, wouldn't you agree? If China can't innovate, then China will fail. That is an imminent fate for all countries that cannot innovate.
 

adiru

Junior Member
Registered Member
Not in his field. If you have knowledge in a critical field, you'll get the funding in China. If the company didn't have it, then the government will. I don't care if he got angry; he couldn't handle it and went crazy, so he's gone. Not everybody has to be nice to each other here, especially if you that something's fishy about a story, but you do have to control yourself. No matter what anybody says to you, you can report it to a mod if you think he broke the rules, eat it because you can't rebut it, or rebut it intelligently. If you start throwing profanities, then you're out. Simple as that.

So basically you're asking me, if every single thing goes wrong for China, what's the bottom line, right? And for some reason, I should entertain this as if I have all the privileged information in China. The best answer is to just watch and see because so many things are going on that we don't know about and China is nothing but depth in terms of talent. But the more entertaining answer is that if everything goes wrong, it all rests on SMEE. Whenever SMEE can get modern lithography to work well, SMIC will be online making the best chips possible with them. The better SMEE is, the better SMIC and Huawei are. TSMC isn't even all that important because it's not independent in its tech. When China figures out the whole chain from lithography its application, that's when China will enter its final unstoppable ascent. It cannot happen before that.

It's simply not intelligent to go further and ask what if all the research efforts fail again and again, wouldn't you agree? If China can't innovate, then China will fail. That is an imminent fate for all countries that cannot innovate.
So you admit you baiting him on purpose.
You are not a good guy. You selectively bait him on some off topics not engaging him on main topic. All because he has some negative opinions on chinese government and Huawei.

Why you care so such much about huawei and chinese government that you have to resort personal attack to bait him? Huawei and Chinese government is not you personally.

If you say you can handle China fails why you so pumped up whenever someone got some negative view or doubts.

I dont think so. You said now because you got cornered.

SMEE has no track record, its chance of success is slim, dont bet on them. Its previous 90nm lithography equipment no one use them.

I think tidalwave can come up with a better alternative than what you have presented.


Depend on priority. China was prioritizing investment on 5g, ai, and big data. Probably chinese officials dont even know EUV otherwise they would use that buzzword.
 
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