Germany Carl Zeiss, heart of Dutch ASML Lithography Equipment.

adiru said:

Can you prove huawei look into those ? Its actually downstream , not upstream. Logic design is higher abstraction level and manufacturing is lower physical level.

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It's a pretty obvious assumption that they would look up and down from their immediate field. Far less of a leap than tidalwave thinking they know nothing, then presenting them with some basic information that they ignored. By upstream, I mean you need semiconductors to make cellphones, not the other way around, so its upstream. It doesn't matter how you term it.

adiru said:

I dont like your assumptions.

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Too bad.

adiru said:

14nm was what liang moon song last worked during his last day at TSMC before he bolted to Samsung . He got that under his belt so its logical SMIC should have no issue on that. 7nm he didnt touch. Again dont make this assumption it will be automatic.

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SMIC's announcement is that they will have 7nm or 7+1 or something they called it by the end of this year or early next year. I'll go by that as the most likely situation rather than you, everything's-so-hard whining attitude.

adiru said:

Again. you making assumption that website is his and thats him.

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Ohhhhhhhhh I didn't get the thing people were sending around proving that site is his, eh? That's in a lot of PMs. I definitely would not post that if there wasn't solid evidence that that's him. If I post it, you'll concede defeat?

And also, you did not answer any of my points 1-3.

adiru said:

Have fun? I could tell you take it very personal almost borderline obsessions.

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You're replying to me, aren't you? We are casual, not specialists, so whatever we do, it's just for fun. If not, then you'd be a professional and your advice would be worth company payroll.

adiru said:

Alot of China new graduates are jobless right now.
They worry paying their bills.

Nationalist sentiment alot of times are dangerous

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This is more of a world economics/COVID-19 issue, not related to China's talent pool.

ZeEa5KPul said:

I'm not trying to be stronger, I'm trying to vent my disgust. Enough out of you. Just. Shut. It.

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This is technical thread, please dont pollute here

This thread needs a deep cleaning, to remove at least the last 20 pages. Why are there so many posters out of nowhere making ridiculous claims and nonsensical arguments? Why do these have anything to do with Carl Zeiss at all?!

Or, please moderators, just lock this thread up for God's sake.

manqiangrexue said:

By upstream, I mean you need semiconductors to make cellphones, not the other way around, so its upstream. It doesn't matter how you term it.

Too bad.

SMIC's announcement is that they will have 7nm or 7+1 or something they called it by the end of this year or early next year. I'll go by that as the most likely situation.

Ohhhhhhhhh I didn't get the thing people were sending around proving that site is his, eh? That's in a lot of PMs. I definitely would not post that if there wasn't solid evidence that that's him. If I post it, you'll concede defeat?

And also, you did not answer any of my points 1-3.

You're replying to me, aren't you? We are casual, not specialists, so whatever we do, it's just for fun. If not, then you'd be a professional and your advice would be worth company payroll.

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Too bad. What does it means? You make assumption about huawei. not about yourself and you cant prove it. Well maybe thats too bad.

Alot of times, announcement of roadmap wont pan out. Any backup plan?

One thing i could tell is obsession. I think you are that. You get way too way personal to be casual and fun. I dont think so

I'm surprised that the Chinese negotiators for the trade deal didn't try to negotiate a protection for Huawei.

It's going to be very difficult, Huawei himself said that the company is fighting for its survival.

And the China hawks leave no way out, they want to tighten the sanctions to close what some see as a loophole


If Huawei is targeted who will be next? China has to put everything into semiconductors, it has to be the number one priority.

adiru said:

Too bad. What does it mesns? You make assumption about huawei. not about yourself and you cant prove it. Well maybe thats too bad.

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It means I don't care what you think because you're not logical. It told you it's normal for a company of that scale to look to expanding its control upstream and downstream all the time and you wanted proof. What did you want, Huawei's internet documents? By your logic, nobody could prove that Huawei ever had a failed prototype or that it can ever make its next model of smartphone.

Every assumption you make is that as long as a person took the time to talk to you (tidalwave), then he must be correct and let's bend everything around how he might be correct and everyone else wrong. You think that just because someone is the loudest voice in your life (in regards to semiconductors) then he's a loud voice in the world, which just shows complete lack of mental filter/check.

adiru said:

Alot of times, announcement of roadmap wont pan out. Any backup plan?

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Lots of times, they do, and if they don't they can be mildly delayed. Ask SMIC if they have a backup plan, or just assume there isn't any because nobody from SMIC came to this forum to tell you that there is?

adiru said:

One thing i could tell is obsession. I think you are that

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Once again, not only do you answer my posts, you're the one PMing people conspiracy theories. Calling other people obsessive shows lack of self-awareness.

adiru said:

Whenever there are criticism on CCP, you would always go into attack mode.

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Cus you're nobody and have accomplished nothing, criticizing a government responsible for the fastest growth of any major country in human history. If you have anything to offer them, then go do it! Do you? No, you just sit here, be useless, and complain. You have no scope of yourself. You're like couch potatoes complaining that the professional athletes you watch aren't perfect. It's nonsense.

manqiangrexue said:

It means I don't care what you think because you're not logical. It told you it's normal for a company of that scale to look to expanding its control upstream and downstream all the time and you wanted proof. What did you want, Huawei's internet documents? By your logic, nobody could prove that Huawei ever had a failed prototype or that it can ever make its next model of smartphone.

Every assumption you make is that as long as a person took the time to talk to you (tidalwave), then he must be correct and let's bend everything around how he might be correct and everyone else wrong. You think that just because someone is the loudest voice in your life (in regards to semiconductors) then he's a loud voice in the world, which just shows complete lack of mental filter/check.

Lots of times, they do, and if they don't they can be mildly delayed. Ask SMIC if they have a backup plan, or just assume there isn't any because nobody from SMIC came to this forum to tell you that there is?

Once again, not only do you answer my posts, you're the one PMing people conspiracy theories. Calling other people obsessive shows lack of self-awareness.

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They paid TSMC to do the job right why they need to worry?

I can make own judgement. Thank you. If you need mental filter thats your thing.

If SMIC has no backup plan does it means huawei screwed? So thats goes the chinese dream?

Lets not get personal PM things in this thread.

tidal is gone. Now you are the smartest guy here , since you think hes no good. Then that means you must be very good. all my technical question will be forwarded to you.
Hopefully you wont disappoint me.
tidal seems like have no patience for your nontechnical style but i do have time for you.

adiru said:

They paid TSMC to do the job right why they need to worry?

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Ahh, I see you are simple-minded. Companies with their survival and expansion in mind never take a "pay and don't worry" attitude and always carry a "learn to do much as you can, explore all possibilities" attitude.

adiru said:

I can make own judgement. Thank you. If you need mental filter thats your thing.

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Oh, clever! The old, "Not me, you" with no supporting argument to it LOL Mental filter isn't so much a TSMC/SMIC thing, it's more of a "believe whatever improbable claims come before you as long as the person befriends you" habit you have. You haven't rebutted anything I said about tidalwave's tendencies that make him improbable to be a scientist and you haven't answered if seeing my evidence that that page is his would end this debate into his capabilities.

adiru said:

If SMIC has no backup plan does it means huawei screwed? So thats goes the chinese dream?

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If not, then it will take longer and they will take another go at it. There are also other companies that are targeting 7nm soon. China will use its vast talent pool to invent the technology another way. Big countries like China and the US have a ton of stamina so don't count on anything being over soon. But you love finishing fast on those 2 conclusions, don't you? "Oh, if everything doesn't go perfectly, we're all finished!" LOL Save it for yourself; nobody is done, screwed, finished, or kaput but you.

adiru said:

Lets not get personal PM things in this thread.

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Ashamed of it, eh? Just don't ever PM me with you're "We're on the same team, I know in my heart of hearts -- insert conspiracy theory" crap again.

adiru said:

Alot of China new graduates are jobless right now.
They worry paying their bills.

Nationalist sentiment alot of times are dangerous

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Not only in China .. everywhere that new graduates very hard to get a job, China is not the worst one, look at even SK .. let alone Greece, Italy, France, Spain, Vietnam, Indonesia, etc

manqiangrexue said:

Ahh, I see you are simple-minded. Companies with their survival and expansion in mind never take a "pay and don't worry" attitude and always carry a "learn to do much as you can, explore all possibilities" attitude.

Oh, clever! The old, "Not me, you" with no supporting argument to it LOL Mental filter isn't so much a TSMC/SMIC thing, it's more of a "believe whatever improbable claims come before you as long as the person befriends you habit you have." You haven't rebutted anything I said about tidalwave's tendencies that make him improbable to be a scientist and you haven't answered if seeing my evidence that that page is his would end this debate into his capabilities.

If not, then it will take longer and they will take another go at it. There are also other companies that are targeting 7nm soon. China will use its vast talent pool to invent the technology another way. Big countries like China and the US have a ton of stamina so don't count on anything being over soon. But you love finishing fast on those 2 conclusions, don't you?

Ashamed of it, eh? Just don't ever PM me with you're "We're on the same team, I know in my heart of hearts -- insert conspiracy theory" crap again.

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If huawei is so prepared, why ren said company have to fight for survival. Sounds desperate.


You said longer. How much longer for 7nm? 5 yrs or 10 yrs. Would they miss the window for 5g expansion?

Alot of times, experiences are important than talent.

If any comparsion, China j20 since 2011 only 25 planes built so far. The time is too long. No good