Discussing Biden's Potential China Policy

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ChongqingHotPot92

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Yeah I could've mentioned China can wipe out US carriers with its assorted anti-ship missiles and China's anti-stealth radar will detect any bombers coming in to prevent those strikes. Or how about knocking out all the US important satellites they need to fight? Just look at that billion dollar high tech radar Taiwan bought from the US that could see most of the coast of China. China jammed it useless once Taiwan turned it on for the first time. I could've said that but it's as speculative as what you were saying. But what's not speculative is China is accused of being worse than Nazi Germany and waging genocide right now and the West does nothing. That's a fact.

What if the US Cyber Commands launches bunch to worms against China's command systems and grids before China could strike against US bases? What if several of Taiwan's HF-2Es, Yunfeng, and USN's Tomahawks manage to penetrate China's air defenses and blow up tons of dams in China? Worse, what if Taiwan decides to lob several standoff missiles at Fujian's nuclear power plants, and one of those just happen to make it through and punch a hole on one of Ningde Plant's reactors? Do you respond with nukes then?

I don't know about the so-called genocide, but I am willing to speculate that if the Taiwanese public does not surrender unconditionally after the war break out, expect some forms mass killings and destruction of Taiwanese indigenous culture (especially those used to promote Taiwanese otherness) unseen since the Cultural Revolution. For example, if the PLA were to be charged by bunch of mobs armed with T-91/T-65 rifles, do you really expect them not to fight back? The PLA is not bunch of baby sitters. Such political violence - inhumane as they sound - could also be used as a deterrent against pro-independence forces in Hong Kong, Xinjiang, and Tibet. As the Chinese always love to say, kill a chicken to scare the monkey. In the end, nobody wins should a war break out over the Taiwan Strait. Beijing would also be a loser for being treated as a pariah state at least by all the white nations (maybe except Russia) plus India, Japan, and South Korea after the war.

What I am trying to say is that China is badly prepared to go to war right now. It takes time to stockpile arms. Also, I don't how China is going to manage the enormous civilian casualties this war could bring about. Keep in mind that Chinese citizens have high expectations for their government looking after them. Given such sense of entitlement, they could easily blame their unintended suffering on the government not doing enough to look after them.
 

emblem21

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What if the US Cyber Commands launches bunch to worms against China's command systems and grids before China could strike against US bases? What if several of Taiwan's HF-2Es, Yunfeng, and USN's Tomahawks manage to penetrate China's air defenses and blow up tons of dams in China? Worse, what if Taiwan decides to lob several standoff missiles at Fujian's nuclear power plants, and one of those just happen to make it through and punch a hole on one of Ningde Plant's reactors? Do you respond with nukes then?

I don't know about the so-called genocide, but I am willing to speculate that if the Taiwanese public does not surrender unconditionally after the war break out, expect some forms mass killings and destruction of Taiwanese indigenous culture (especially those used to promote Taiwanese otherness) unseen since the Cultural Revolution. For example, if the PLA were to be charged by bunch of mobs armed with T-91/T-65 rifles, do you really expect them not to fight back? The PLA is not bunch of baby sitters. Such political violence - inhumane as they sound - could also be used as a deterrent against pro-independence forces in Hong Kong, Xinjiang, and Tibet. As the Chinese always love to say, kill a chicken to scare the monkey. In the end, nobody wins should a war break out over the Taiwan Strait. Beijing would also be a loser for being treated as a pariah state at least by all the white nations (maybe except Russia) plus India, Japan, and South Korea after the war.

What I am trying to say is that China is badly prepared to go to war right now. It takes time to stockpile arms. Also, I don't how China is going to manage the enormous civilian casualties this war could bring about. Keep in mind that Chinese citizens have high expectations for their government looking after them. Given such sense of entitlement, they could easily blame their unintended suffering on the government not doing enough to look after them.
It also takes time for the USA to prepare for war and even worse, ensure that technologies are up to date and the people are sufficiently motivated along with ensuring that they have the money to even start a war for no printing trillions more isn’t going to be enough. Right now, the people are far more worried about saving for the winter and making sure they have enough food on the table to worry about a war they have no real interest in. China has proven there ability to make the latest radar in Taiwan useless the moment they tried to use it, so it is not far fetched to believe that China has the necessary capability to stop what ever missiles from Taiwan from reaching the mainland and should Taiwan make this fatal mistake, Taiwan will be wiped out via hypersonic weapons and any USA ship that tries a real attack will face a similar fate and also to mention, just attempting to hit any of China’s dams will mean a nuclear war will begin where both Russia and China will strike the USA in with all of their their nuclear weapons, hence ensure that with an option between making money from China or waging a pointless war for very little gain for anyone it’s quite clear that the USA has no real wish to die for a single Taiwanese no matter what kind of platitudes they sprout.
 

Bellum_Romanum

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Doesn't this go against the spirit of "decoupling." Or maybe as usual they think China has to buy from them while they don't have to buy from China...
The QUAD + Canada + EU are monkeying up China at the WTO "review" trying to ape her market ala OPIUM trade whereas China is forced to make her products uncompetitive and be forced to have her industries owned by Western companies. History is being repeated against China almost literally.
 

ChongqingHotPot92

Junior Member
Registered Member
Right now, the people are far more worried about saving for the winter and making sure they have enough food on the table to worry about a war they have no real interest in.
That has ironically been a sickening strength of the US political system, especially in mobilizing against perceived foreign enemies. It is also why Trump was elected. Unlike Chinese citizens, American do not expect Washington to look after their welfare. This is why even with 700,000 COVID deaths, Americans do not blame their own government because one of the founding principles of the United States has been a small federal government, which is responsible only for defense and interpretation of laws. Thus, rugged individualism (and of course, no questioning over wealth inequality because corporate liberties = individual liberties) is the core of the American identity. Whatever responsibilities not specifically delegated to the federal government remain in the hands of each of the 50 states. In other words, the federal government is not burdened by welfares and other commitments when waging a war against China. The Chinese government many more issues (such as poverty alleviation, common prosperity, etc.) to deal with besides unification with Taiwan.
 

9dashline

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What if the US Cyber Commands launches bunch to worms against China's command systems and grids before China could strike against US bases?

They been talking about Internet flash worms since the AOL days of Al Gore.... see this article from the early 2000s

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Recall they worked for years on the top secret joint NSA/Mossad project to create the Stuxnet virus that infected Iran centrifuges etc... turns out some Iranian dude brought it in to their airgapped network via usb drive... Recall this Stuxnet was so secretive that it was written in a completely new programming language from scratch rather than than C/C++ or any publicly known computer language, in order to make it easier to hide and harder to decompile/reverse engineer... Did it slow Iran down for a couple months? Yes, did it stop Iran nuclear ambitions and its programs/projects? No...

This ain't like the movies, there is no magic... China is probably already ahead of US when it comes to cybersecurity

 

Overbom

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What if the US Cyber Commands launches bunch to worms against China's command systems and grids before China could strike against US bases?
So what? China also has similar capabilities to strike back at the US. Plus these "command systems" you speak off are not connected with the internet which makes it far more difficult to attack them

What if several of Taiwan's HF-2Es, Yunfeng, and USN's Tomahawks manage to penetrate China's air defenses and blow up tons of dams in China?
"Tons of dams" better check out how difficult is for dams to get destroyed. Plus, if all these missiles manage to hit the interior of China so much then it means that the war would be already half-lost (western dreams)


Worse, what if Taiwan decides to lob several standoff missiles at Fujian's nuclear power plants, and one of those just happen to make it through and punch a hole on one of Ningde Plant's reactors? Do you respond with nukes then?
Reactors are missile/airplane hardened. And if attacked, China would directly threaten to use nuclear weapons against Taiwan/US if Taiwan doesn't surrender. This is called as a red-line in diplomacy, and no one will rush to defend Taiwan against China if it had really tried to bomb nuclear reactors

I don't know about the so-called genocide, but I am willing to speculate that if the Taiwanese public does not surrender unconditionally after the war break out, expect some forms mass killings and destruction of Taiwanese indigenous culture (especially those used to promote Taiwanese otherness) unseen since the Cultural Revolution.
You wat? China is a lot more smarter than you give it credit for

For example, if the PLA were to be charged by bunch of mobs armed with T-91/T-65 rifles, do you really expect them not to fight back?
Hahaha. Taiwanese people fighting lol. It seems you dont know a lot about them. The moment they see the PLA, they will surrender immediately. They are the biggest cowards I have ever known, rivalled only by the Japanese


In the end, nobody wins should a war break out over the Taiwan Strait.
Fake news. The moment Taiwan falls, China will have its foot on Japan's neck. Plus it will be able to break off from the 1st island chain constraints. Finally it would also be able to become much less restrained in dealing with ASEAN and finally start kicking out US influence from there

There also a dozen other benefits. So what you said about "nobody wins" is wrong


Beijing would also be a loser for being treated as a pariah state at least by all the white nations (maybe except Russia) plus India, Japan, and South Korea
India is already hostile. Same for Japan (it will change its mind after Taiwan falls though...). S.Korea will do nothing.

White nations are already most of them hostile to China. Who cares about a couple more puppets added against it?

In addition, by that time China would be far more powerful than today, and it would be easy to cripple them economically in case they tried to do something




Also, I don't how China is going to manage the enormous civilian casualties this war could bring about
Are you dreaming again? What "enormous civilian casualties" are you talking about?


Keep in mind that Chinese citizens have high expectations for their government looking after them. Given such sense of entitlement, they could easily blame their unintended suffering on the government not doing enough to look after them.
Chinese citizens demand is about reunification with Taiwan. In case you haven't noticed, it is actually the public that it more demanding and more assertive towards reunification with Taiwan. As time passes, this public voice is getting harder and harder to ignore by the Gov (Gov prefers to be more low-key)

The West must be very thankful to the CPC that it is keeping down the hard-left. If those guys were in power, then lol. Next day there would be war
 

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
What if the US Cyber Commands launches bunch to worms against China's command systems and grids before China could strike against US bases? What if several of Taiwan's HF-2Es, Yunfeng, and USN's Tomahawks manage to penetrate China's air defenses and blow up tons of dams in China? Worse, what if Taiwan decides to lob several standoff missiles at Fujian's nuclear power plants, and one of those just happen to make it through and punch a hole on one of Ningde Plant's reactors? Do you respond with nukes then?

I don't know about the so-called genocide, but I am willing to speculate that if the Taiwanese public does not surrender unconditionally after the war break out, expect some forms mass killings and destruction of Taiwanese indigenous culture (especially those used to promote Taiwanese otherness) unseen since the Cultural Revolution. For example, if the PLA were to be charged by bunch of mobs armed with T-91/T-65 rifles, do you really expect them not to fight back? The PLA is not bunch of baby sitters. Such political violence - inhumane as they sound - could also be used as a deterrent against pro-independence forces in Hong Kong, Xinjiang, and Tibet. As the Chinese always love to say, kill a chicken to scare the monkey. In the end, nobody wins should a war break out over the Taiwan Strait. Beijing would also be a loser for being treated as a pariah state at least by all the white nations (maybe except Russia) plus India, Japan, and South Korea after the war.

What I am trying to say is that China is badly prepared to go to war right now. It takes time to stockpile arms. Also, I don't how China is going to manage the enormous civilian casualties this war could bring about. Keep in mind that Chinese citizens have high expectations for their government looking after them. Given such sense of entitlement, they could easily blame their unintended suffering on the government not doing enough to look after them.
Are you sure about that? War is going to be bad for China for sure but do you actually think or erroneously assume for a nano second that Japan, Taiwan, India, not least the U.S. will be unscathed in the aftermath of an armed conflict? If you a former non-commissioned enlisted soldier in the PLA could think or imagined such potential pitfalls against any kinetic actions by China, then it's not improbable to assume that people of higher rank, intelligence, and accomplishments have thought of such contingencies and have designed, wargamed, procured, and readied the country of China for any and every eventualities because that's their jobs. If however you're assumptions are proved to be correct at such a time then the PLA along with the CPC will be dissolved and must be uprooted for such monumental failure. Any outcome that's less than a total success will be a failure and failure at such grand magnitude can't and will not be tolerated by the Chinese people itself.

I am sorry for saying this but almost every response I read from you is a tad too critical and biased against your own country assuming that you are who you say you are and not some make believe caricature created by you in order for your non-centric Chinese commentaries be looked and read with less suspicion.

While it's good and must be welcomed to have contrarian views to challenge the prevailing narrative on China because we don't want to come off like stenographers that simply repeats without critical thinking or analysis everything that comes out of China. It's good to have our existing biases and opinions be challenged from anyone that's coming from an objective place even if that person is of Chinese stock and most especially if the person actually hails and lives in China.

I don't know wether your opinion is largely shaped by your experience living in China or from the western based education you attained for your graduate studies where some of the most persistent and attractive western precepts have seeped into your thinking and have therefore influenced your views on China.
 
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ChongqingHotPot92

Junior Member
Registered Member
Chinese citizens demand is about reunification with Taiwan. In case you haven't noticed, it is actually the public that it more demanding and more assertive towards reunification with Taiwan. As time passes, this public voice is getting harder and harder to ignore by the Gov (Gov prefers to be more low-key)

The West must be very thankful to the CPC that it is keeping down the hard-left. If those guys were in power, then lol. Next day there would be war
I agree that Chinese citizens demand tough actions on Taiwan, but are these one-child families REALLY prepared to lose their children for national unification? Do they even understand the consequences of a great power war and be prepared to lose everything in order to achieve national unification? This is very different from getting high watching Wolf Warrior 2.
 

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
That has ironically been a sickening strength of the US political system, especially in mobilizing against perceived foreign enemies. It is also why Trump was elected. Unlike Chinese citizens, American do not expect Washington to look after their welfare. This is why even with 700,000 COVID deaths, Americans do not blame their own government because one of the founding principles of the United States has been a small federal government, which is responsible only for defense and interpretation of laws. Thus, rugged individualism (and of course, no questioning over wealth inequality because corporate liberties = individual liberties) is the core of the American identity. Whatever responsibilities not specifically delegated to the federal government remain in the hands of each of the 50 states. In other words, the federal government is not burdened by welfares and other commitments when waging a war against China. The Chinese government many more issues (such as poverty alleviation, common prosperity, etc.) to deal with besides unification with Taiwan.
Dude, the American government literally printed TRILLIONS of $$$ so that it can provide FINANCIAL relief to her citizens that were affected from the COVID-19 pandemic. The money received by the American workers have prompted millions of them to quit their jobs due to the Covid-19 relief money which is also one of the key reasons why American supermarkets are experiencing empty shelves or logistics back log due to short of workers. Plus America pays for Social Security Benefits, SNAP payments to the very low income Americans for food stamps and alike which actually boost or help the American economy. They also have drug prescription benefits, Medicare and Medicaid...So I don't know where you got your information from but you're wrong.

The description that your wrote about America sounds like you read and learned that from the Libertarian school of thought where the functions of the Federal government ought to be limited to what you wrote above. But that's not the reality of Americans in America.
 
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