Discussing Biden's Potential China Policy

AssassinsMace said:

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I thought after Biden's European tour, all of them were united against China... Now we know its the same as usual. All Biden is doing is spinning bull.

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Germany would never ever join US in doing anything against China maybe lip service but nothing that threatens thier relationship

They're pragmatic and smart people

UK and France on the other hand have tasted colonialism, they'll never consider non-whites to be thier equal or superior and will fight it to the best of thier ability

Lots of talks on Asian NATO by US

Makes me think why isn't China working towards a powerful Asian bloc where we can have economic collaboration like EU and millitary collaboration like NATO

I mean it doesn't even have to be as good as that

but SCO is a joke let's be honest, west has much better organizations

In which organization you have both India and Pak and the leading nation is having border skeimishes with it's SCO member....

If China is to be a powerful nation days of sitting alone and watching the world is over you need to get active, make strong regional alliances, economic alliances

Do Something!

Just a bit annoyed with China, they're way too pessimistic and aren't taking thier rightful place in the world

Make SCO a STRONG organization on an emergency basis

Bigboii said:

Lots of talks on Asian NATO by US

Makes me think why isn't China working towards a powerful Asian bloc where we can have economic collaboration like EU and millitary collaboration like NATO

I mean it doesn't even have to be as good as that

but SCO is a joke let's be honest, west has much better organizations

In which organization you have both India and Pak and the leading nation is having border skeimishes with it's SCO member....

If China is to be a powerful nation days of sitting alone and watching the world is over you need to get active, make strong regional alliances, economic alliances

Do Something!

Just a bit annoyed with China, they're way too pessimistic and aren't taking thier rightful place in the world

Make SCO a STRONG organization on an emergency basis

Click to expand...

@Bigboii bro it has, SCO is a framework that led to BRI and latest China and Russia rapprochement is a proved of that. Central Asia especially the former soviet republic is Russia sphere of influence, Respecting its concern and laying a ground work of cooperation is the key, focusing on economic issue is the best way to address those suspicion and by investing in infrastructure like railways and pipeline tied the two superpower together, with that the security aspect will come/form to protect those investment.

Having achieved Economic development and prosperity nation state will form an alliances to protect it, with RCEP coming in play maybe in 10 years the Asian nation will form an security arrangement to protect itself from the US and NATO.

Bigboii said:

Lots of talks on Asian NATO by US

Makes me think why isn't China working towards a powerful Asian bloc where we can have economic collaboration like EU and millitary collaboration like NATO

I mean it doesn't even have to be as good as that

but SCO is a joke let's be honest, west has much better organizations

In which organization you have both India and Pak and the leading nation is having border skeimishes with it's SCO member....

If China is to be a powerful nation days of sitting alone and watching the world is over you need to get active, make strong regional alliances, economic alliances

Do Something!

Just a bit annoyed with China, they're way too pessimistic and aren't taking thier rightful place in the world

Make SCO a STRONG organization on an emergency basis

Click to expand...

NATO and Asian alliances is a byproduct of US victory in WW2. Basically forged via blood and military occupation of Europe/Korea/Japan. Having Soviet as a boogeyman certainly helped.

For example, even the former Soviet States are still in military alliance with Russia via CSTO alliance. It takes occupation/wars/victory to forge alliances like NATO or CSTO.

It's not as easy for China to emulate another NATO without winning a big war or conflict.

Bigboii said:

Lots of talks on Asian NATO by US

Makes me think why isn't China working towards a powerful Asian bloc where we can have economic collaboration like EU and millitary collaboration like NATO

I mean it doesn't even have to be as good as that

but SCO is a joke let's be honest, west has much better organizations

In which organization you have both India and Pak and the leading nation is having border skeimishes with it's SCO member....

If China is to be a powerful nation days of sitting alone and watching the world is over you need to get active, make strong regional alliances, economic alliances

Do Something!

Just a bit annoyed with China, they're way too pessimistic and aren't taking thier rightful place in the world

Make SCO a STRONG organization on an emergency basis

Click to expand...

China needs to make concessions to South East Asia countries especially on matters having to do with territorial disputes.
Solve them and allocate so that she can allocate resources to fight the American onslaught.
If you look at Biden, he's busy offering trade concessions to Europe and other countries. China should have no territorial dispute in Asia. That's just giving the Americans ammunition

Bigboii said:

I mean it doesn't even have to be as good as that

but SCO is a joke let's be honest, west has much better organizations

In which organization you have both India and Pak and the leading nation is having border skeimishes with it's SCO member....

Click to expand...

You can thank Russia for that.
Putin dealt tremendous damage to the SCO and ultimately to China by pressuring it to accept India joining the SCO.

Nobody else wanted India to join. China didnt and Pakistan also definetely didnt.

I consider India joining SCO a 100% strategic and diplomatic failure from Xi. Both Pakistan and India joined in 2015.

Some Xi' fans will say "but who could have know that India will become anti-China?" lol

There were signs then that this would happen and anyone with half a brain would see that India was destined to be a roadblock to China's rising.

Big big failure which falls squarely on Xi.

Time to get some payback from Russia on Central Asian. China has started making some moves on the region recently. I expect that it will intensify its efforts on the coming years

If Russia intends to retain such big influence there, its time to pay up with investments or leave more room for Chinese influence in the region.

Dont get me wrong, i dont blame Russia, it was acting on its national interests when it pushed for India joining SCO. The fault rests on Xi and his team when they let it enter

It made strategically sense to court India and defuse whatever tensions between India and China. However, India is very unreliable and hostile towards China. Moreover, India doesn't have a long term strategic thinking. Furthermore, it rules by a populism and charismatic leadership and the ruling party is Hindu nationalistic and religious focus. Consequently, any attempts to mend relationship is pointless and useless. I do think Xi's attempt to reason with Modi is not well planned out especially after Mao had already tried and decided it is fruitless to understand Indians' strategic mentality.

As for making concessions toward the SEA nations, I think is a mistake. China had made a lot of concessions toward Burma and Vietnam during the early days of its founding. But Burma still doesn't trust China til this day. Vietnam is even more aggressive by trying to take over all of South China Sea. So any thinking of making concessions would only invite more demands from some SEA nations especially for countries that want a large piece of South China Sea.

voyager1 said:

You can thank Russia for that.
Putin dealt tremendous damage to the SCO and ultimately to China by pressuring it to accept India joining the SCO.

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If you think Russia was so eager to damage SCO, why do you think China should care to preserve it?

Nobody else wanted India to join. China didnt and Pakistan also definetely didnt.

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China may not want India in. But Pakistan has no say to it because it was not in SCO just like India. The rest of SCO doesn't have an opinion except Russia. China is not the only member of SCO. Just like UN, no matter how small a country is, it carries one vote in the assembly, and one vote in the UNSC when in it. Not even the US can do anything at will in UN, why do you expect China to be better in strong-arming others?

Some Xi' fans will say "but who could have know that India will become anti-China?" lol

There were signs then that this would happen and anyone with half a brain would see that India was destined to be a roadblock to China's rising.

Click to expand...

You make that up. Everybody knows that. Only you think that others did not know.

Time to get some payback from Russia on Central Asian. China has started making some moves on the region recently. I expect that it will intensify its efforts on the coming years

If Russia intends to retain such big influence there, its time to pay up with investments or leave more room for Chinese influence in the region.

Dont get me wrong, i dont blame Russia, it was acting on its national interests when it pushed for India joining SCO. The fault rests on Xi and his team when they let it enter

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This is contradictory on your part. If you don't blame someone why do you demand payback? Payback for "doing nothing wrong"?

Hypothetically if Xi did your "right" thing of blocking India, what would the relationship between China and Russia be today? As if nothing happened? Will you then blame Xi for doing wrong that damaged the relationship between China and Russia today? If you do, you are in self-contradiction. If you don't then you just want to damage the most important strategic relationship of China at this part of history.

I some times honestly wonder if you are just being naive or has something in your mind that I don't want to point out.

voyager1 said:

You can thank Russia for that.
Putin dealt tremendous damage to the SCO and ultimately to China by pressuring it to accept India joining the SCO.

Nobody else wanted India to join. China didnt and Pakistan also definetely didnt.

I consider India joining SCO a 100% strategic and diplomatic failure from Xi. Both Pakistan and India joined in 2015.

Some Xi' fans will say "but who could have know that India will become anti-China?" lol

There were signs then that this would happen and anyone with half a brain would see that India was destined to be a roadblock to China's rising.

Big big failure which falls squarely on Xi.

Time to get some payback from Russia on Central Asian. China has started making some moves on the region recently. I expect that it will intensify its efforts on the coming years

If Russia intends to retain such big influence there, its time to pay up with investments or leave more room for Chinese influence in the region.

Dont get me wrong, i dont blame Russia, it was acting on its national interests when it pushed for India joining SCO. The fault rests on Xi and his team when they let it enter

Click to expand...

And if they insist and forcefully stated their case against India's membership then do you magically think that Putin's Russia's relationship with China and Xi Jinping wouldn't have been damaged at best and at worst the whole Sino-Russia relationship wouldn't have looked differently I.e. more of a challenge for China in light of the eventual U.S. roundabout turned adversarial during Trump’s tenure? Evey action has an opposite and equal reaction so I don't quite accept your binary thinking or views with respect to the SCO inclusion of India. Nothing happens in a linear fashion and no one was assuming that India was going to become full retard with respect to it's strategic outlook and posture against China.

Although hindsight is 20/20, you have been unable to provide ample evidence to support your thesis that India ought to have been excluded from joining SCO when the country has been a member of BRICS initiative and other regional organization/framework design to foster positive relationships between the nation's involve that bears the acronym. China has no choice but to work with it's neighbour despite the known and established challenges with respect to India because whether one likes it or not India is it's permanent neighbour and close to it's periphery. No Chinese leadership Xi Jinping or otherwise can or would ignore this reality, they are not dumb enough to allow their biased or prejudicial personal views against that country to drive, guide and formulate their geopolitical policies in the region and the world. Otherwise it wouldn't have re-established working relationship with Japan if personal animus is used as the guiding principle.

Topazchen said:

China needs to make concessions to South East Asia countries especially on matters having to do with territorial disputes.
Solve them and allocate so that she can allocate resources to fight the American onslaught.
If you look at Biden, he's busy offering trade concessions to Europe and other countries. China should have no territorial dispute in Asia. That's just giving the Americans ammunition

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No. You only make concessions if you can gain something else with someone who has a legitimate ground. The disputes with SEA would NOT have been here if it is not due to the U.S.' presence in this part of world after WWII. Making such concessions is to cede to the demand of U.S. for China's total surrender.

Just look through the SEA countries. Non of them exists at the time of 1945 when China laid claim to the whole SCS. How could there be a legitimate dispute when there is no legitimate claimant? All SEA claimants were US puppet states. That includes claim by south Vietnam which is inherited by Vietnam today.