Discussing Biden's Potential China Policy

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MarKoz81

Junior Member
Registered Member
China needs to make us understands that they can't have it both ways
Anytime the us escalates, China needs to end one engagement with america
for example another sanction or provocation in taiwan straits, means north korea getting everything it needs for its military
another fake news about Xinjiang, means no more cooperation in ending the flows of opioid to america

America can't have it both ways because "having it both ways" is impossible. It is a lie that masks unsustainable policies that feed the elite at the expense of the rest of society. It's cutting of taxes while you increase the debt. It's economically and politically unsustainable and political and economic strength determine military strength. The billionaires will not fight in the war so either they pay the masses to fight it for them or they face the same reality as Russian elites did in 1917. The only other way is the German scenario which will require America to start plundering other countries by force to cover the losses.

By allowing America to "have it both ways" China simply allows it to continue on its current downward trend that must inevitably end in collapse of the current regime. One way or the other.

It is literally "the capitalists will sell us the rope that we'll use to hang them".

Why would China abandon an advantageous strategy that allows them to play on the comfortable defensive side in favor of one that is less advantageous and potentially more risky because it puts them on the side of aggression?

To satisfy narcissistic egos of internet jingoists who can't handle "humiliation" of seeing angry tweets and provocative articles?

In the ancient times primitive barbarian armies who still understood war in terms of individual and tribal contests started every battle by insulting their enemies and challenging them to single combat. It was characteristic of Celtic cultures for example.

Do you know how that strategy worked for them once they encountered Roman armies, especially in the late Republic era? Are you saying the Romans should also hurl insults and bare bottocks and send legionary Phallus Maximus Coitus to challenge the barbarian champion?

Something tells me that history disagrees with that proposition.
 

HybridHypothesis

Junior Member
Registered Member
America can't have it both ways because "having it both ways" is impossible. It is a lie that masks unsustainable policies that feed the elite at the expense of the rest of society. It's cutting of taxes while you increase the debt. It's economically and politically unsustainable and political and economic strength determine military strength. The billionaires will not fight in the war so either they pay the masses to fight it for them or they face the same reality as Russian elites did in 1917. The only other way is the German scenario which will require America to start plundering other countries by force to cover the losses.

By allowing America to "have it both ways" China simply allows it to continue on its current downward trend that must inevitably end in collapse of the current regime. One way or the other.

It is literally "the capitalists will sell us the rope that we'll use to hang them".

Why would China abandon an advantageous strategy that allows them to play on the comfortable defensive side in favor of one that is less advantageous and potentially more risky because it puts them on the side of aggression?

To satisfy narcissistic egos of internet jingoists who can't handle "humiliation" of seeing angry tweets and provocative articles?

In the ancient times primitive barbarian armies who still understood war in terms of individual and tribal contests started every battle by insulting their enemies and challenging them to single combat. It was characteristic of Celtic cultures for example.

Do you know how that strategy worked for them once they encountered Roman armies, especially in the late Republic era? Are you saying the Romans should also hurl insults and bare bottocks and send legionary Phallus Maximus Coitus to challenge the barbarian champion?

Something tells me that history disagrees with that proposition.
MarKoz, did you use to have an account on Reddit? I use to follow a very excellent poster who could produce extremely detailed posts like this seemingly on a whim, but he deleted his account recently.
 

bajingan

Senior Member
America can't have it both ways because "having it both ways" is impossible. It is a lie that masks unsustainable policies that feed the elite at the expense of the rest of society. It's cutting of taxes while you increase the debt. It's economically and politically unsustainable and political and economic strength determine military strength. The billionaires will not fight in the war so either they pay the masses to fight it for them or they face the same reality as Russian elites did in 1917. The only other way is the German scenario which will require America to start plundering other countries by force to cover the losses.

By allowing America to "have it both ways" China simply allows it to continue on its current downward trend that must inevitably end in collapse of the current regime. One way or the other.

It is literally "the capitalists will sell us the rope that we'll use to hang them".

Why would China abandon an advantageous strategy that allows them to play on the comfortable defensive side in favor of one that is less advantageous and potentially more risky because it puts them on the side of aggression?

To satisfy narcissistic egos of internet jingoists who can't handle "humiliation" of seeing angry tweets and provocative articles?

In the ancient times primitive barbarian armies who still understood war in terms of individual and tribal contests started every battle by insulting their enemies and challenging them to single combat. It was characteristic of Celtic cultures for example.

Do you know how that strategy worked for them once they encountered Roman armies, especially in the late Republic era? Are you saying the Romans should also hurl insults and bare bottocks and send legionary Phallus Maximus Coitus to challenge the barbarian champion?

Something tells me that history disagrees with that proposition.
You seem to confuse american double standard and contradiction in its domestic policy versus american "having it both ways" in foreign policy
I agreed that the us "having it both ways" in domestic policy will bring about its downfall, as events in jan 6th provides us with the preview of that
But america "having it both ways" in foreign policy is downright malicious and designed to contain and destroy China and needs to be countered aggressively
For example the us is forcing China to join arms control while investing in trillions dollars upgrading its nuclear arsenal, it will be a matter of time before america sanctions China for refusing to join start treaty, what will China response in that case?
The us asking China to rein in north korea nuclear weapons program while planning to station long range ballistic missile on south korea (south korea recently is allowed to develop unlimited range ballistic missile) why should China cooperate with us sanctions on north korea? You see the logic here?
 

quantumlight

Junior Member
Registered Member
America can't have it both ways because "having it both ways" is impossible. It is a lie that masks unsustainable policies that feed the elite at the expense of the rest of society. It's cutting of taxes while you increase the debt. It's economically and politically unsustainable and political and economic strength determine military strength. The billionaires will not fight in the war so either they pay the masses to fight it for them or they face the same reality as Russian elites did in 1917. The only other way is the German scenario which will require America to start plundering other countries by force to cover the losses.

By allowing America to "have it both ways" China simply allows it to continue on its current downward trend that must inevitably end in collapse of the current regime. One way or the other.

It is literally "the capitalists will sell us the rope that we'll use to hang them".

Why would China abandon an advantageous strategy that allows them to play on the comfortable defensive side in favor of one that is less advantageous and potentially more risky because it puts them on the side of aggression?

To satisfy narcissistic egos of internet jingoists who can't handle "humiliation" of seeing angry tweets and provocative articles?

In the ancient times primitive barbarian armies who still understood war in terms of individual and tribal contests started every battle by insulting their enemies and challenging them to single combat. It was characteristic of Celtic cultures for example.

Do you know how that strategy worked for them once they encountered Roman armies, especially in the late Republic era? Are you saying the Romans should also hurl insults and bare bottocks and send legionary Phallus Maximus Coitus to challenge the barbarian champion?

Something tells me that history disagrees with that proposition.

Couple things different this time around...

all previous empires, including the very last one (UK) did not possess atomic weapons at their peak... MAD doctrine changes the calculus from all other historical nonnuclear empires that came and gone before the USA...

Some say we are on verge of AGI and a intelligence singularity of sorts, perhaps a machine "Cambrian explosion". Just like inventing a hypothetical Time Machine, the nation that masters and dominates AI first will likely stay on top forever....by definition...

Also, there is the grave matter of Peak Oil... simply put unless we can solve fusion or find other more exotic and abundant energy dense sources of fuel and scale it up in time, our civilization seems doomed to the fate of Easter Island... since from energy perspective we have not left the petroleum age and in fact globally peaked back in around 2019...


How does the interplay of the three overarching structural forces above affect the balance and outcome of the China vs US dynamic...
 

hkbc

Junior Member
Watched Pascal this morning

then Daniel Dumbrill over Lunch

Maybe a case of if you can't beat them join them!

I particularly liked Pascal quoting Steve Jobs, all those talking heads that go on about China and semiconductors should really concern themselves with what China's real plans are in the information technology/A.I./telecoms fields/Fusion/Space! :)

Better not their heads will explode!
 

steel21

Junior Member
Registered Member
Watched Pascal this morning

then Daniel Dumbrill over Lunch

Maybe a case of if you can't beat them join them!

I particularly liked Pascal quoting Steve Jobs, all those talking heads that go on about China and semiconductors should really concern themselves with what China's real plans are in the information technology/A.I./telecoms fields/Fusion/Space! :)

Better not their heads will explode!
If he only worked in the USG and understand how near impossible for a comprehensive industrial policy to be implemented at this point.

Capital has too much sway, especially after Citizen United
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emblem21

Major
Registered Member
Its going to bring all the NeoCons out of the woodworks.

Waiting to see how Biden fairs at the mid-term next year.
You would have to be crazy if anyone thinks that Biden, a man that is in his twilight years and suffering from an onset of dementia that managed to screw up relations with China, Iran and Russia all at the same time is somehow going to be able to do what China has taken at least 2-3 decades to achieve on its own merit which having low resources, a mega drought that is striking there food bread basket and even worse, one step away from being completely and utterly broke. In fact, the more and more I think about it, the possibility of the deagle website of the USA losing a large amount of there population in the next 5 years, might not be all that farfetched given how things are beginning to spiral out of control
 

james smith esq

Senior Member
Registered Member
One thing we might consider when discussing Biden’s potential China policies is the possibility that they’ll be as short-lived as were Trump’s. With the political division and disagreements about what constitutes a fact in contemporary US/American politics, there is no guarantee that his policies -whatever they may be- will even be put into effect before his administration terminates.

From where I stand, I’m seeing the potential for another ‘60 - ‘80 type period in US/American presidential administrations. Either by assassination, unpopularity, or impeachment, there was no strict continuity in the White House for that twenty-year period. I’m no Nostradamus (in fact, I’m NOTstradamus), but I certainly sense an anxiety and fragmentation in US/American politics that could result in an instability in Presidential elections and discontinuity in Presidential administrations.

In such a scenario, the primary sources of continuity of policy would likely be the neo-con think tanks, corporate-interests, and chicken-hawk senators and congresspersons. So, much like the Vietnam War, which was maintained throughout most of the above-mentioned period, there is still a possibility of some degree of continuity, even in the anticipated scenario.
 
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