Discussing Biden's Potential China Policy

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MarKoz81

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Wall of text time.

I hope the conversation below can supplement above explanation:

Unfortunately it can't because it's sensationalist pseudohistory written for commercial purposes and intended for anglo audiences and dependent on the ignorance of the broader world that characterizes said anglo audiences.

The best way to peddle sales is to hit controversy with a pivot point in the middle of things that people seeking controversy know and understand. Hence the world is either black and white or white and black. It's never something in between because that's not controversial enough and it's never blue and grey because that's too unfamiliar. Either it's the white man's burden or the white man has no culture. Neoconservative Evangelicals or Social Justice Warriors.

That's not history. That's a mental illness.

Anglos are not "the West". The Anglos didn't exist until the Elizabethan era. Even the language was different before the emergence of early modern English and the vowel shift. Before the emergence of early modern English the elites spoke French and Latin and the commonry spoke Old English which was a German-like language and Celtic. Britain didn't matter on a global scale until the established powers of the time - Spain, Portugal, Netherlands and France - bled themselves during the succession wars in 18th century. Only then - much like Americans during the World Wars - do the Anglos enter the scene and begin to play as equals and ultimately dominate the game because of their relative starting position and advantages in geography.

When the Spanish tried to crush the English with the Great Armada it was not because the English were seen as a threat - the way China is perceived by America today - but because they were seen as troublesome pests - like the Greeks to the Persians. And they were ignored as irrelevant and not worth the effort as soon as a major defeat provided the excuse to never waste resources on Phyrric victories. That's what happened during the Persian invasion of Greece but what do we remember of that? Marathon, Thermopylae and Salamis. Certainly not the Peloponnesian war that was funded by Persia on both sides. Certainly there's no equivalent of that happening in the 17th century in England.. oh wait...

Even if you want to make the erroneous claim that "the West" is defined by colonial empires and maritime economy then the European maritime empires grew out of Mediterranean maritime empires and Hansa and those grew out of Roman, Byzantine, Greek and Carthaginian maritime empires which grew out of Bronze Age maritime empires of Crete, Phoenicia and Egypt. Then there are the extensive land and sea trade routes that existed in pre-Roman and pre-Celtic Europe during the Bronze Age which constituted a very "globalized" network of trade and culture. Egyptian pharaohs were sending their daughters to chiefs of Northern and Western European tribes to secure access to resources. Historians found genetic evidence matching historical records from Egypt of one such marriage taking place in Ireland!

If you want a book - try Eric Cline's "1177 B.C.: The Year Civilization Collapsed" which is an attempt to present the state of the global economy in the Bronze Age Middle East written by an archeologist who writes about history, not his political interpretation of it. Once you read it - or listen to a lecture by the author of which there are several on youtube - you see that any notion that "the West" emerges from virgin birth whether through divine intervention as the Anglo protestants see it, or through some kind of egregious sin as the New Left sees it, is just false.

"The West" is what happens when an established civilization shifts with resources and changing climate slightly to the northwest.
When Elizabeth I begins the age of Anglo delusion the "West" has existed for over fifteen hundred years.

If anything the "Western" cultures in first Britain and then later America are created by rejection of the West as it exists in the Old World. At least in Europe you can meaningfully say that you are the "West". There's a sea at one end. How can you know if you are the West in America?

In Europe "the West" is a cultural continuity that lasts beyond whatever political regime establishes itself over these networks and forces everyone to learn their version of history as means of legitimizing their rule. In America - and that is increasingly the cultural influence re-defining how the rest of Anglosphere sees it - there's nothing except for the bullshit that a preacher spews to get donors to his church.

Sometimes the propaganda is borderline farcical in its self-contradiction. Like when Romans extoll virtues of "Greek" civilization that conquered Persia but at the same time invade Greece under the guise of protecting Greeks from the Macedonian oppression which was precisely the civilization that conquered Persia... after being a Persian vassal for centuries.

Are you getting the Global War on Terror vibes from it like I do?

Anyone who wants to simply the history of the world to West and China must ignore the role of Central Asia and the Middle East which were a very different place in the past - not because of climate shift (partly due to human exploitation of the environment) but also because of how overland and littoral trade routes influenced growth of societies.

When you study the ancient civilizations of Elam and Indus you tend to encounter a surprising number of references to long-distance trade. Where did this trade come from? Does anyone really think that it was much harder to cross Asia in 10th century AD than it was in 15th century BC?

And don't get me started on how every single John Hobson peddling their revolutionary book on how the world really works conveniently ignores the Persians. You know, the world's first empire that at the same time managed to maintain a society almost devoid of slavery and with a system of personal rights? The Persians lasted for only... over a thousand years (6 century BC to 7th century AD ) and then managed to overcome conquests first by the barbarian Alexander and then by the Rashidun Caliphate after which they returned to prominence as Abbassid Caliphate until the Mongols destroyed everything. Even the Abbassid capital of Baghdad was established not far from the old imperial capital of Ctesiphon.

It is only after the Persians fall and are replaced by Turkic invaders (Mongols, Timurids, Ottomans etc) who are like the Barbarians in Roma history that the trade routes are shut off and the economic incentive for Europeans to seek maritime routes appears. Ancient Rome had contact with Han China and the Silk Road went through Persia. And it continued like that for over a thousand years.

And let's not forget that you can buy the compass but you have to learn the language. China is hampered tremendously because it has the world's worst major language system and the West succeeds beyond its natural capacity because it has the best. We'd be all speaking Chinese now if it wasn't for those pesky tones and logograms. Literacy was nonexistent until a great effort from the government was put into both forcibly educating people and simplifying the alphabet. The Indians are just one step away with their languages. And how do the Westerners get their language?

From the Phoenicians and Greeks who needed something very flexible and very efficient to record trade with multiple culturally and linguistically distinct cultures in the region.

I bet John Hobson never thought of that in explaining the relative weakness of the West vs the colonized cultures of the East.

The best way is to learn what the book is really about is to turn the book upside down. Learn another language and read history in another language. This is why real historians study primary sources. Otherwise you never leave the realm of manipulation and propaganda manufactured by people like this guy so they can get their five minutes of fame.
 

MBM

New Member
Registered Member
Wall of text time.



Unfortunately it can't because it's sensationalist pseudohistory written for commercial purposes and intended for anglo audiences and dependent on the ignorance of the broader world that characterizes said anglo audiences.

The best way to peddle sales is to hit controversy with a pivot point in the middle of things that people seeking controversy know and understand. Hence the world is either black and white or white and black. It's never something in between because that's not controversial enough and it's never blue and grey because that's too unfamiliar. Either it's the white man's burden or the white man has no culture. Neoconservative Evangelicals or Social Justice Warriors.

That's not history. That's a mental illness.

Anglos are not "the West". The Anglos didn't exist until the Elizabethan era. Even the language was different before the emergence of early modern English and the vowel shift. Before the emergence of early modern English the elites spoke French and Latin and the commonry spoke Old English which was a German-like language and Celtic. Britain didn't matter on a global scale until the established powers of the time - Spain, Portugal, Netherlands and France - bled themselves during the succession wars in 18th century. Only then - much like Americans during the World Wars - do the Anglos enter the scene and begin to play as equals and ultimately dominate the game because of their relative starting position and advantages in geography.

When the Spanish tried to crush the English with the Great Armada it was not because the English were seen as a threat - the way China is perceived by America today - but because they were seen as troublesome pests - like the Greeks to the Persians. And they were ignored as irrelevant and not worth the effort as soon as a major defeat provided the excuse to never waste resources on Phyrric victories. That's what happened during the Persian invasion of Greece but what do we remember of that? Marathon, Thermopylae and Salamis. Certainly not the Peloponnesian war that was funded by Persia on both sides. Certainly there's no equivalent of that happening in the 17th century in England.. oh wait...

Even if you want to make the erroneous claim that "the West" is defined by colonial empires and maritime economy then the European maritime empires grew out of Mediterranean maritime empires and Hansa and those grew out of Roman, Byzantine, Greek and Carthaginian maritime empires which grew out of Bronze Age maritime empires of Crete, Phoenicia and Egypt. Then there are the extensive land and sea trade routes that existed in pre-Roman and pre-Celtic Europe during the Bronze Age which constituted a very "globalized" network of trade and culture. Egyptian pharaohs were sending their daughters to chiefs of Northern and Western European tribes to secure access to resources. Historians found genetic evidence matching historical records from Egypt of one such marriage taking place in Ireland!

If you want a book - try Eric Cline's "1177 B.C.: The Year Civilization Collapsed" which is an attempt to present the state of the global economy in the Bronze Age Middle East written by an archeologist who writes about history, not his political interpretation of it. Once you read it - or listen to a lecture by the author of which there are several on youtube - you see that any notion that "the West" emerges from virgin birth whether through divine intervention as the Anglo protestants see it, or through some kind of egregious sin as the New Left sees it, is just false.

"The West" is what happens when an established civilization shifts with resources and changing climate slightly to the northwest.
When Elizabeth I begins the age of Anglo delusion the "West" has existed for over fifteen hundred years.

If anything the "Western" cultures in first Britain and then later America are created by rejection of the West as it exists in the Old World. At least in Europe you can meaningfully say that you are the "West". There's a sea at one end. How can you know if you are the West in America?

In Europe "the West" is a cultural continuity that lasts beyond whatever political regime establishes itself over these networks and forces everyone to learn their version of history as means of legitimizing their rule. In America - and that is increasingly the cultural influence re-defining how the rest of Anglosphere sees it - there's nothing except for the bullshit that a preacher spews to get donors to his church.

Sometimes the propaganda is borderline farcical in its self-contradiction. Like when Romans extoll virtues of "Greek" civilization that conquered Persia but at the same time invade Greece under the guise of protecting Greeks from the Macedonian oppression which was precisely the civilization that conquered Persia... after being a Persian vassal for centuries.

Are you getting the Global War on Terror vibes from it like I do?

Anyone who wants to simply the history of the world to West and China must ignore the role of Central Asia and the Middle East which were a very different place in the past - not because of climate shift (partly due to human exploitation of the environment) but also because of how overland and littoral trade routes influenced growth of societies.

When you study the ancient civilizations of Elam and Indus you tend to encounter a surprising number of references to long-distance trade. Where did this trade come from? Does anyone really think that it was much harder to cross Asia in 10th century AD than it was in 15th century BC?

And don't get me started on how every single John Hobson peddling their revolutionary book on how the world really works conveniently ignores the Persians. You know, the world's first empire that at the same time managed to maintain a society almost devoid of slavery and with a system of personal rights? The Persians lasted for only... over a thousand years (6 century BC to 7th century AD ) and then managed to overcome conquests first by the barbarian Alexander and then by the Rashidun Caliphate after which they returned to prominence as Abbassid Caliphate until the Mongols destroyed everything. Even the Abbassid capital of Baghdad was established not far from the old imperial capital of Ctesiphon.

It is only after the Persians fall and are replaced by Turkic invaders (Mongols, Timurids, Ottomans etc) who are like the Barbarians in Roma history that the trade routes are shut off and the economic incentive for Europeans to seek maritime routes appears. Ancient Rome had contact with Han China and the Silk Road went through Persia. And it continued like that for over a thousand years.

And let's not forget that you can buy the compass but you have to learn the language. China is hampered tremendously because it has the world's worst major language system and the West succeeds beyond its natural capacity because it has the best. We'd be all speaking Chinese now if it wasn't for those pesky tones and logograms. Literacy was nonexistent until a great effort from the government was put into both forcibly educating people and simplifying the alphabet. The Indians are just one step away with their languages. And how do the Westerners get their language?

From the Phoenicians and Greeks who needed something very flexible and very efficient to record trade with multiple culturally and linguistically distinct cultures in the region.

I bet John Hobson never thought of that in explaining the relative weakness of the West vs the colonized cultures of the East.

The best way is to learn what the book is really about is to turn the book upside down. Learn another language and read history in another language. This is why real historians study primary sources. Otherwise you never leave the realm of manipulation and propaganda manufactured by people like this guy so they can get their five minutes of fame.
It's very good take on the whole subject of the civilization. It's interesting indeed. Maybe the comparative study and the geneses of civilizations by A.J. Toynbee could be good reads too.

I've read the book long time ago and it gave me different perspective. I would not dismiss it as a mere propaganda as John Hobson had at least conducted some research on the subject of what he wrote. I don't take things black or white .... I enjoy the nuances.
 

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
So the English Vegetable offered empathy to the loss of Biden's dog! If only she would show the same degree if empathy to her own citizens loss at hands of her bodge response to Covid. Taiwan might be in a better position.

FB_IMG_1624188091762.jpg

FB_IMG_1624189662406.jpg

@t2contra

Biden is only keeping the seat warm for Kamala.

FB_IMG_1624122134784.jpg

You can't make the sxxt up.
 
Last edited:

gelgoog

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Registered Member
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BUILDING RESILIENT SUPPLY CHAINS, REVITALIZING AMERICAN MANUFACTURING, AND FOSTERING BROAD-BASED GROWTH 100-Day Reviews under Executive Order 14017

...
Protect U.S. Technological Advantage in Semiconductor Manufacturing and Advanced Packaging by ensuring that export controls support policy actions to address national security and foreign policy concerns related to the semiconductor manufacturing and advanced packaging supply chain and that foreign investment reviews consider national security considerations in the semiconductor and advanced packaging supply chain.
...
China-based Yangtze Memory Technologies (YMTC), formed in 2016, is focused on rapid expansion and has received an estimated $24 billion in subsidies from Chinese government sources. The company may have the capacity to produce as many as 200,000 wafers per month by 2022, over twice Intel’s current NAND production capacity, representing a potential low-cost threat to U.S.-based memory companies.
...
Over the past several years, China has taken steps to increase its access to and control of semiconductor IP. In 2017, Canyon Bridge Capital Partners, a private equity fund with Chinese government ownership, purchased U.K.-based Imagination Technologies, estimated to be the fifth largest provider of semiconductor IP. In 2018, Arm China was formed as a 51 percent Chinese-owned joint venture with U.K.-based Arm Holdings. Greater Chinese control over semiconductor IP may present a risk to U.S. industry by limiting the IP available to U.S. companies.
...
the U.S. fabless design sector is dependent on contract foundries, which are primarily located in East Asia, to manufacture their products and on sales to customers outside of the United States, particularly in China
...
While U.S. chip production capacity has been relatively stable, capacity and production are growing outside of the United States, particularly in Asia. As a result, SIA predicts that, by 2030, the U.S. share of semiconductor production capacity will fall to 10 percent, while the Asian share will grow to 83 percent. In 2019, of six new semiconductor production facilities in the world, none were in the United States, while four were in China.
...
the United States produces only five percent of memory chips, while South Korea accounts for 44 percent, and China 14 percent.72In the memory segment, as noted above, China has focused on rapid expansion of YMTC, providing the company with $24 billion in subsidies allocated just for its Wuhan factory. The company’s expansion and low-price offerings presents a direct threat to U.S. memory chip makers Micron and Western Digital.

In the logic chip segment (e.g., computer and cell phone microprocessors), the United States produces none of the leading edge (under 10 nm) chips while Taiwan accounts for 92 percent. At other logic chip nodes, the United States is stronger: it produces 43 percent of advanced (10-22 nm) logic chips, and the six to nine percent of prior generation (28 nm and above) logic chips while Taiwan between 31 and 47 percent and China between 19 and 23 percent. Finally, the United States produces 19 percent of analog/discrete chips while China 17 percent and South Korea 27 percent.
...
China is the largest market for semiconductors, most of which are then re-exported when contained in end products, including consumer electronics and appliances. According to The Economist in 2018, for example, mobile phone chip provider Qualcomm generated two-thirds of its revenue from China, and memory maker Micron generated 57 percent of its revenue from the country. Intel reported in 2020 that China accounted for 26 percent of its revenue. Heavy reliance on sales to China provides the Chinese Government with economic leverage and the potential to retaliate against the United States.
...
China’s most advanced pure-play foundry, Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corporation (SMIC), can only produce at the 14 nm node, with limited capacity. However, the country is in the middle of major state-led effort to develop an indigenous, vertically integrated industry that leads in all segments by 2030. China’s share of semiconductor wafer capacity stood at 16 percent in 2019, but is expected to grow to 28 percent by 2030. The Chinese Government is devoting $100 billion in subsidies to its semiconductor industry, including the development of 60 new manufacturing facilities. As discussed in the discussion of “design” segment of the supply chain, China has moved aggressively with its subsidies to develop a home-grown memory chip maker to break its reliance on the world’s three main memory companies: Samsung (South Korea), SK hynix (South Korea), and Micron (U.S.). U.S. memory firm Micron is a direct competitor with YMTC and will likely be the first U.S. firm to see its future competitiveness and ability to innovate threatened as a result of Chinese subsidies funding its competitor.
...
While China does not currently have strong advanced packaging capabilities, as noted above, it is developing advanced packaging capabilities in order to compensate for its lack of production of leading-edge semiconductors.
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IPC/U.S. Partnership for Assured Electronics (USPAE) estimates the United States is 20 years behind Asia in printed circuit board manufacturing technologies necessary for next-generation electronics applications and 30 years behind in the capability to manufacture the printed circuit board manufacturing-like substrates necessary for advanced microelectronics packaging.
...
Although the U.S. currently has production capacity, according to the domestic producers, U.S. technological leadership and production of semiconductor-grade polysilicon is at risk due to China’s actions to increase its dominance of both the semiconductor and solar supply chains. As a result of these actions, which include a high tariff on polysilicon imported to China, U.S. polysilicon producers have been cut off from the Chinese market, which represents over 95 percent of the global solar-grade polysilicon market. Direct and immediate customers in the solar industry currently do not exist in the United States. Because the production processes for semiconductor grade and solar grade polysilicon are closely related, U.S. producers must be able to take advantage of a robust global market for solar energy products to ensure continued production of material for semiconductors. According to these producers, China now accounts for over 70 percent of polysilicon production capacity, and U.S. producers, nine percent.
...
 
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Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
So the English Vegetable offered empathy to the loss of Biden's dog! If only she would show the same degree if empathy to her own citizens loss at hands of her bodge response to Covid. Taiwan might be in a better position.

View attachment 73634

View attachment 73636

@t2contra

Biden is only keeping the seat warm for Kamala.

View attachment 73635

You can't make the sxxt up.

I know, I'm replying to my own post. But what a great reply to the English Vegetable's tweet.. So I cant resist.

FB_IMG_1624270175809.jpg
 

bajingan

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Kurt Campbell's strategy of scaring China it will be isolated and left behind
China needs to make us understands that they can't have it both ways
Anytime the us escalates, China needs to end one engagement with america
for example another sanction or provocation in taiwan straits, means north korea getting everything it needs for its military
another fake news about Xinjiang, means no more cooperation in ending the flows of opioid to america
 
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