Discussing Biden's Potential China Policy


Hendrik_2000

Brigadier
I thought this is an excellent article that debunk the myth of China threat and why US hate china so much has nothing to do with China more thing to do with US
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What is the China Threat?

In the last three decades, China has experienced a rate of economic growth unprecedented in modern history. Between 1990 and 2019,
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32 times. In terms of total GDP, China may become wealthier than the U.S. in the next two decades—and by some measures,
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For the sake of comparison, in 1980 the Soviet Union had a GDP that was
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that of the U.S., with the trendlines actually favoring the West. Recently, when the economist Branko Milanovic
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that the Nobel Prize in his field should go to scholars who study the most important questions out there, he pointed to Chinese growth as an example, calling it “40 years of the most extraordinary increase in income for the largest number of people ever.”

This would be frightening if the U.S. and China coveted territory from one another. Azerbaijan’s recent military victory over Armenia in the conflict over Nagorno-Karabakh can be attributed to the former growing economically, and therefore militarily, stronger than the latter
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Yet the two modern superpowers are on opposite sides of the world and have no similar dispute between them. It is true that the U.S. seeks to preserve the territorial integrity of allies and partners, such as Taiwan and Japan, that may be threatened by Beijing. The incoming Biden administration will likely have a policy of willingness to defend the Senkaku Islands, an uninhabited five rocks and three reefs that the U.S. considers part of Japan. But why America should risk nuclear war over this issue is rarely explained. To the extent such objections are addressed, they are buried under appeals to morality that forgo any kind of cost-benefit analysis, and buzzwords such as preserving an undefined sense of American credibility or the broad goal of reinforcing deterrence.

Another idea, popular among pundits and the general public, is that Chinese growth is necessarily bad for the U.S. But in reality, Chinese growth has so far directly benefited U.S. consumers: it is undisputed
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that trade with China made America better off by lowering the price of goods. Despite the temptation to political amnesia, the fact is that U.S. policy privileged these economic gains for many years, and its relationship with China was explicitly informed by these political decisions.

While this has undermined U.S. economic capacity in important ways, the cause wasn’t cheating, trickery, or even growth on the part of China. Instead, the cause was the success of American policy priorities. If there is a problem, it is most immediately that those priorities were misguided. The U.S. has the right to conduct trade on its own terms. It can choose what kind of strategy it wants in trade negotiations, and is free to deal with the downsides of neglecting domestic industry and increased competition for jobs through whatever means it considers appropriate. To see China as a civilizational enemy over such issues, however, is bizarre.

The same is true regarding IP theft. While the practice has been estimated to cost the U.S. hundreds of billions of dollars a year, it is nonetheless
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, with South Korea and Taiwan having had similarly bad records as their economies began to grow. No other state was considered a fundamental threat to the U.S. over the issue, with a mix of external pressure and internal incentives leading them to ultimately develop more rigorous patent laws and enforcement. Many corporations, the parties most directly affected, treat the problem as the price of doing business.

Perhaps, then, the threat is that China seeks to remake the world in its own image? This is a popular trope among the national security establishment. H.R. McMaster, perhaps the quintessential representative of this class,
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is “leading the development of new rules and a new international order that would make the world less free and less safe.” When one scratches the surface of these arguments, it is clear that most of the indictment against China involves things that every country does, but only looks frightening if you completely ignore American behavior. Chinese loans to poor countries are said to trap them in debt, but the evidence
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. The same criticisms don’t often extend to the sorts of loan programs offered by the International Monetary Fund, even though these have often been
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as, and much more comprehensive than, any Chinese financial aid.

But despite the growth of this position among the American establishment, still others accuse it of strategically respecting the sovereignty of other states. In March, Daniel Tobin of the Center for Strategic and International Studies
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that China continues to promote the normative principles of “mutual respect for each other’s territorial integrity and sovereignty, mutual nonaggression, mutual noninterference in each other’s internal affairs, equality and cooperation for mutual benefit, and peaceful coexistence.” Ted Piccione of the Brookings Institution
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under Xi putting forth “orthodox interpretations of national sovereignty and noninterference in internal affairs…”

While China is not blameless, one could reasonably make the argument that, from an international perspective, it has had easily the most peaceful rise to great power status of any nation of the last several hundred years. While China has carried out the re-annexation of Tibet, blockaded Taiwan diplomatically, and launched internal colonization of territories like Xinjiang, such actions always occur under the ideologically important claim that they are internal to China. The U.S., conversely, undertook external colonial ventures during its rise and still regularly sanctions unquestionably sovereign nations. China’s territorial claims are naturally controversial internationally, but are modest compared to those sought by other powers—not least the U.S. itself, which early in its history declared the entire Western Hemisphere as off limits to the nations of Europe. Its interventionist policies since then have led to the overthrow of governments, the
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, and the economic sanctioning of entire nations.
 

siegecrossbow

Brigadier
Staff member
Super Moderator
I am happy to say that when I checked "Superpower" wikipedia page in 2007 and 2011 and 2016, China was not listed a superpower.

NOW in 2021, China is FINALLY acknowledged as the second emerging superpower on Wikipedia. Truly we are living through history at the moment. Took a decade after eclipsing Japan, and despite not having even eclipsed US yet in GDP. People just know, it's inevitable. China is a mega powerhouse nation

Let’s not descend to Super Power 2020’s (or is it 2030 now?) level.
 

AssassinsMace

Brigadier
Something is going on where there's a lot of articles coming out portraying China as a faux threat to the US. This coming from the people who can't sleep at night because of North Korea. On one hand I can see white supremacists trying to portray China as inferior and is just trying increase morale of the American people. They said the Washington capitol riots were all about how average everyday Americans were feeling left out not only by the American elites but also the world leaving them behind. On the other hand maybe some people recognize the US is headed down a dire path that will eventually lead to the demise of the US economically and maybe even war. Trump has done more against China than any other President in the modern era and China is is still standing after predictions of collapse. Trump slapped tariffs on everything coming out of China except those exports where US corporations outsourcing were going to hurt more. Even Trump saw a point of no return. They know all the real reasons why they want to stop China aren't crimes. They start a war and they will be seen as the evil in the world. That's why accusations of genocide are now front and center.
 

horse

Junior Member
Registered Member
That's why accusations of genocide are now front and center.
It is pretty adolescence.

Forget now, but there was a time when after the knife attacks, Xinjiang was restricted from being visited by foreigners?

Today it seems like there are few restrictions to visit. All those MPs in Canada all 266-0 could go to China and visit Xinjiang in all probability.

Then we have crap like this.
thegrayzone.com/2021/02/18/us-media-reports-chinese-genocide-relied-on-fraudulent-far-right-researcher/

If no Muslim country has jumped on this bandwagon, and none have, then this propaganda campaign is rather limited in it objectives.

The CCP probably will look at it as more evidence that America is in a global decline that they cannot or unable to knowledge or reverse. Setting the global agenda is important to the world's policeman, and here is an alleged crime against Muslims and all Muslims countries ignore it.

:)
 

SilentObserver

Junior Member
Registered Member
Something is going on where there's a lot of articles coming out portraying China as a faux threat to the US. This coming from the people who can't sleep at night because of North Korea. On one hand I can see white supremacists trying to portray China as inferior and is just trying increase morale of the American people. They said the Washington capitol riots were all about how average everyday Americans were feeling left out not only by the American elites but also the world leaving them behind. On the other hand maybe some people recognize the US is headed down a dire path that will eventually lead to the demise of the US economically and maybe even war. Trump has done more against China than any other President in the modern era and China is is still standing after predictions of collapse. Trump slapped tariffs on everything coming out of China except those exports where US corporations outsourcing were going to hurt more. Even Trump saw a point of no return. They know all the real reasons why they want to stop China aren't crimes. They start a war and they will be seen as the evil in the world. That's why accusations of genocide are now front and center.
The so called "white supremist" and far right are more sensitive to these domestic and global changes that occurred compared to liberal ones. Liberals (not far left) sees a more optimistic world, a world where the American system can prevail through the improved integration of various ethnic groups under its ideology thereby giving moral legitimacy to become the capitol of the world. We hear that through the rhetoric of democrat leaders from Hilary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi to Joe Biden. Both the far left and right largely sees that as out of touch with reality.

The right wing on the other hand sees the clock ticking against their favour with declining demographics, deindustrialization of the heartland, mass immigration, etc. When it comes to demographics, liberals and right wing sees different Americas. Liberals often cite the stable demographics of America which is true overall. Many see an optimistic America because they tend to live in major city centers which benefited proportionally more from globalization and are service industry heavy. The right wing sees the demographic decline of "white America" which to them is the true America.
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pyramid is like that of Japan. They likely live in rural areas and small towns that have been hollowed out by globalization and mostly automation of manufacturing. Some research argue 87% of job losses in manufacturing was due to automation while 13% was from trade.
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People that have never been to America tend to think of America as a giant LA, NYC or Miami. This is not the case. Small town America which comprises most of America's territory are like the small Pennsylvanian town in the video (towns likes of which I've been to). Most from small town America will not be comfortable with overt rhetoric like that from this man but it is common in a more subtle way, many do feel more comfortable in a more homogenous environment and "traditional American values".

@1:20 "We are staring down the barrel of a gun here in White America. There are still 193 million White Americans, yes the vast majority of them are in their 60s and 70s will be in the ground in the next 20 years and therefore we have the possibility of becoming a minority in our own country". A common fear of American right wing is the Brazilification of America, in the sense that there would be immense wealth/income inequalities, white minority, high crime rates, high poverty, a detached ruling class, etc.

We currently see right wing politicians doubling down on efforts to push their agenda as the clock is ticking. If they don't act strongly now they fear history won't be so kind to them whether its their own descendants or others.
 
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daifo

Junior Member
Registered Member
It is pretty adolescence.

Forget now, but there was a time when after the knife attacks, Xinjiang was restricted from being visited by foreigners?

Today it seems like there are few restrictions to visit. All those MPs in Canada all 266-0 could go to China and visit Xinjiang in all probability.

Then we have crap like this.
thegrayzone.com/2021/02/18/us-media-reports-chinese-genocide-relied-on-fraudulent-far-right-researcher/

If no Muslim country has jumped on this bandwagon, and none have, then this propaganda campaign is rather limited in it objectives.

The CCP probably will look at it as more evidence that America is in a global decline that they cannot or unable to knowledge or reverse. Setting the global agenda is important to the world's policeman, and here is an alleged crime against Muslims and all Muslims countries ignore it.

:)

I think the diabolical trump/gop/aussie/uk are trying to get muslim terrorist to attack east asians. It always has been Trumps game plan to cause direct pain to random joe of any non whites
 

Josh Luo

Senior Member
Registered Member
Biden is calling for federal spending of only $700 billion USD in his plan to invest in infrastructure, manufacturing, electric vehicles, artificial intelligence and other sectors.

Meanwhile:
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BTW, if you measure at PPP prices (more appropriate since shit is cheaper in China since they didn’t outsource everything + economies of scale), then China is spending $12.3 trillion USD over the next 5-7 years. Compared to Biden's proposal of just $700 billion (certain to get whittled down a lot, and likely may not even pass). Even if it passes, you are still being outspent by a factor of almost 20 times, and it's a losing battle if you don't significantly match China-levels of spending.
Question. I need some help here. How does China finance such spendings/investment and deal with debts?
 

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