Death toll in Xinjiang riot rises to 140


FriedRiceNSpice

Senior Member
The main point of my post is that if China wants to avoid being the butt of criticism from the West, in its accusations of Kadeer, then quality evidence it has to be. Because she said the type of incident that had occured in Tibet should be replicated in Xinjiang, does not mean she plotted for it to happen.
Seriously, what makes you think China's gives a rat's ass about what the West thinks?
 

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
don't seem to grasp some of the basics of the discussion like the ability of circumstantial evidence to result in the death penalty.
After reading your link , I must admit that I made a mistake, and should have used the words "weak circumstantial evidence is usually not permissible". Had I done that I would have been correct in my initial assertions

I was put off my train of thought in that area, because I had earlier referred to one of Nz's most famous murder trials (Arthur Allan Thomas)when he was convicted twice. The police feeling they would not be able to secure a conviction on admissible circumstantial evidence, fabricated it by planting some bullet casings.

But all said and done there's no excuse for my sloppy application on what research I had done So Im sorry.:eek:
 

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
Seriously, what makes you think China's gives a rat's ass about what the West thinks?
Well to avoid getting to political, I think they have a problem with Kadeer.
She's become another rallying point for the anti China brigade, finding favour amongst the Norwegians,Germans,and co.

So if they want to demonize her to current and future supporters they need to have strong evidence of her wrong doing. I certainly don't want to see that fumbling bumbling approach of a few years ago when world pressure lead to her release.

And I really think they have had trouble genuinely convincing the West that they do indeed have a terrorism problem.

A certain amount of journalists etc think that Chinas just crying wolf, using it as an excuse to come down hard, .... the usual sort of thing.
 

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
Bladerunner, I don't know exactly what part of this was planned and directed by Rebiya Kadeer, but I do know that her office played an important role in this overall script, and that at least they acted as someone who is well aware of the plans and what their part is in these plans. It is obvious also that they were quite inspired by the riots in Tibet last year, and their potential for "doing damage" to China, which this woman reportedly relishes. As well, she refuses to disassociate herself from the events. I don't know if any of this would count as "evidence" of whatever particular crime she could be charged with legally, but I know that the Chinese government is making a POLITICAL statement about this, and not a legal one, and that under the circumstances it is hard to argue that certain other states in the world are aiding and abetting this kind of injury to China by harboring people like her.
Thanks Red Moon

I cant see why they were so weak as to let her go in the first place.

I just hope that when this all dies down and the punishment melted out, that its not back to the same old thing again.
 

maozedong

Banned Idiot
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #145
Well to avoid getting to political, I think they have a problem with Kadeer.
She's become another rallying point for the anti China brigade, finding favour amongst the Norwegians,Germans,and co.

So if they want to demonize her to current and future supporters they need to have strong evidence of her wrong doing. I certainly don't want to see that fumbling bumbling approach of a few years ago when world pressure lead to her release.

And I really think they have had trouble genuinely convincing the West that they do indeed have a terrorism problem.

A certain amount of journalists etc think that Chinas just crying wolf, using it as an excuse to come down hard, .... the usual sort of thing.

Chinese people are not living for Westerners , in this world is diverse, only a handful of Westerners.
The U.S and Western nations believe that Iran wants to develop nuclear weapons is based on judgments made by intelligence,there is no detailed evidence-" only under the circumstances ",but Iran denies, they argue that Iran is only peaceful uses of atomic energy, but Western media all agree that Iran development of nuclear weapons, then why are you not crying out for strong evidence to the Western?
United Nations Security Council had made a decision to implement the system of Iran planted, have you raised any objections in any post?
 
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ccL1

New Member
Al Jazeera seems to be the only one writing about it:

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An official of the World Uighur Congress has admitted that their exiled leader used an incorrect photograph to illustrate riots in China's western Xinjiang region, during an interview with Al Jazeera.

Alim Seytoff of the Uighur American Associaition said he and other Uighur leaders regretted the error.

Rebiya Kadeer, a former Uighur businesswoman who was jailed in China for several years and now lives in exile in the US, used the photograph during an interview earlier this week.

She said the photograph showed Chinese forces lined up on the streets of Urumqi, the capital of the Xinjiang.

However, the image was not of Urumqi, but is believed to be of an unrelated riot in the city of Shishou a month earlier.

Several news agencies including Reuters issued the photograph - apparently originally sourced from Twitter - last Monday, a day after riots broke out in Urumqi that Chinese officials say left more than 150 dead.

The mistake was picked up by several Chinese websites, China's state-run China Daily newspaper and by readers of the Al Jazeera website.

Speaking to Al Jazeera on Friday, Alim Seytoff of the Uighur American Associaition apologised for the error.

"We deeply regret using this wrong photo, that was not our intent," he said, speaking from Washington.

"Later we were able to find out that the photograph showed Han Chinese protesters in Hubei province in a protest which took place a few days before the Urumqi unrest."
You must always get your facts straight, even a photograph, if you want any credibility.

I hope this link works. It's the disputed riot photo:
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Quickie

Major
There are a number of elements which stand out in the Urumqi incident:
1) The "rioting" on July 5th has very much the look of a planned military assault, and not something that somehow "evolved" out of the protest that evening. In fact, it is reported that the violence began at several different points in the city simultaneously at around 8pm. There was plenty of police at the protest, but there were few or no police where the rampage took place. Over 150 people were killed and 200 fires were set, plus over 1000 people badly injured. You cannot do this kind of damage without some preparation and I think even training in the case of arson. It also requires the rioters to bring such things as metal pipes or bats and maybe gasoline, for example. The rioters were prepared for what they did, and they acted in a cold-blooded way. People had their throats slit, women were bludgeoned to death, buses were set on fire with people inside. On the other hand, handout photos given out by Uighur anti-Chinese organizations of the "peaceful protest" prior to the violence do not show any such obvious equipment. Nor do any photos of this 6pm protest show any "clash with the authorities".
2) The two actions, protest and riot, were planned as two parts of one action. The events, both the protest at 6pm and the "rioting" at 8pm as well as attacks against Chinese representative offices in other countries, were planned through cell phone and Internet networking in the days leading up to July 5th. In fact the relatively late hour for the demonstration allowed the associated assault to take place under cover of the night. The protest also served as a diversion to cover the real damage being inflicted.
3) The Uighur separatists are trying to follow a Tibetan model. It is a species of copy-cat crime. There is a "peaceful protest" followed by rioting. In both cases, the rioting apparently starts on some cue, inexplicable to outside witnesses. In both cases there is an office outside of China which somehow has a script prepared for the press as soon as the story breaks: "it was a peaceful protest followed by a violent crackdown by the authorities, and this led to widespread anger and rioting." In the news reports, this is followed by "explanations" regarding conditions in China's minority regions, about discrimination, cultural "genocide", the "seething anger", etc. In the case of Tibet, the script included an instant body count of 200, while today the media simply insinuates that the reported casualties were caused by the "repressive regime".
4) In the case of the protests last year, the "foreign office" in question is the Dalai Lama's office in India (Dharmsala) and its ally, Campaign for Tibet. This office, of course, is led by the "spiritual leader of the Tibetan people" the Dalai Lama himself. This year, the obligatory news contact for the Western media is the office of the World Uighur Congress, led by Rebiya Kadeer, in Washington, DC. This woman is being referred to as "our spiritual mother" and her organization is being touted as some sort of umbrella for Uighur groups internationally.
5) In both cases, the Western media accepts the script virtually without question. Neither in the case of Tibet last year, or Xinjiang now is there any evidence of violence by the authorities. None of the photos or videos show this, nor the nature of the injuries (no bullet holes). In the case of Tibet last year, anti-Chinese U-tubers had to resort to using imagery from Nepal to show physical repression, and yet, in videos I saw of the "peaceful protest", one could make out plenty of people with cell-phone cameras or regular digital cameras taking pictures and videos.

Bladerunner, I don't know exactly what part of this was planned and directed by Rebiya Kadeer, but I do know that her office played an important role in this overall script, and that at least they acted as someone who is well aware of the plans and what their part is in these plans. It is obvious also that they were quite inspired by the riots in Tibet last year, and their potential for "doing damage" to China, which this woman reportedly relishes. As well, she refuses to disassociate herself from the events. I don't know if any of this would count as "evidence" of whatever particular crime she could be charged with legally, but I know that the Chinese government is making a POLITICAL statement about this, and not a legal one, and that under the circumstances it is hard to argue that certain other states in the world are aiding and abetting this kind of injury to China by harboring people like her.
There can be little doubt the protest had been well planned in advance. Its timing with the G8, the US independence etc comes to mind, in addition to the size and scope of the protest. One possible scenario is that the protest is made to seem to be a peaceful one to some of the protesters. Terrorist elements then work behind them to plan for the unimaginable mayhem. The violence and brutality of the riots seems more like the work of terrorists than ordinary protesters.

Just heard over the radio that a muslim group in Indonesia is protesting over the killing of muslims in Xinjiang. I wonder what's the source of their news and its reliability. As with most of the world's mainstream media, there's no mention of the many innocent civilians and bystanders who died violently in the beginning of the riots.
 

maozedong

Banned Idiot
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #148
Thanks Red Moon

I cant see why they were so weak as to let her go in the first place.

I just hope that when this all dies down and the punishment melted out, that its not back to the same old thing again.
If you would like to know the truth of the incident, you should do more research, especially you have never been to China, but more research should be multi.


Evidence shows Rebiya Kadeer behind Xinjiang riot:

Special Report: 7.5 Xinjiang Urumqi Riots

BEIJING, July 8 (Xinhua) -- The separatist World Uyghur Congress led by Rebiya Kadeer was behind the deadly July 5 Xinjiang riot, in which at least 156 people died and more than 1000 were injured, sources with the government said.

Evidence showed the riot was organized. It was instigated and masterminded by the World Uyghur Congress led by Kadeer, the sources said.

The Congress used the June 26 factory brawl between Uygur and Han ethnic workers in Guangdong Province, in which two Uygurs died, to create chaos.

On July 1, the Congress held a special meeting, plotting to instigate unrest by sending messages via the Internet, telephones and mobile phones.

On July 4, some people inside the country began to send out a flood of online posts encouraging people to go to the Renmin Square in Urumqi, capital of the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, to protest on July 5 to support separatists abroad.

At 1:06 a.m. July 5, police in Urumqi were tipped off that some people were putting out illegal information calling for an illegal gathering at Renmin Square at 7 p.m. July 5.

According to recordings of calls, at 11 a.m. July 5, Kadeer said, as she called her younger brother in Urumqi, "A lot of things have happened, and we all know something might happen in Urumqi tomorrow night."

On July 6, Kadeer held an emergency meeting with some senior members of the Congress to make plans to further stir up both domestic and overseas demonstrations and to call for intervention from foreign governments and human rights institutions.

Their schemes were immediately materialized in the attack on China's consulate in Munich, Germany, on Monday morning and the violence done by over 150 separatists in front of China's embassy in the Netherlands that afternoon.

All these facts pointed to Kadeer, whose personal experience bore further evidence of her splittist connection.

Kadeer was elected in 2006 to be the chairwoman of the Congress, which was founded in Munich in 2004.

The Congress, an organization alleging to represent the ultimate interests of East Turkestan people, is wholly dedicated to masterminding secessionist activities in the name of human rights and democracy, the government said.

Born in Xinjiang in 1951, Kadeer, a former businesswoman in China, made a fortune illegally from the 1980s on through tax evasion and fraud.

She was sentenced to an eight-year imprisonment in 2000 on charges of illegally disclosing state secrets, and was released on bail in 2005 to seek medical treatment in the United States.

She immediately got involved with overseas terrorists, separatists and extremists forces there, according to Wang Lequan, Communist Party chief of Xinjiang.

Kadeer once claimed the Congress would plot to sabotage activities marking the 60th anniversary of the founding of the People's Republic of China this year.

Touted as the "mother of Uygur people" by East Turkestan terrorists, Kadeer constantly visited Germany and other countries in northern Europe to build support.

"Kadeer's credentials got the recognition of overseas East Turkestan forces, and her experience is also an advantage to be capitalized on by Western anti-Chinese forces," said Ma Dazheng, director of the Xinjiang development research center of the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences.

Pan Guang, an expert in international affairs and director of the Shanghai International Studies Center, said, "The East Turkestan terrorist forces portray Kadeer as a figure comparable to the Dalai Lama to promote her international influence."

"Actually, they just want to follow the road of the Dalai Lama to put the so-called Xinjiang issue into the international spotlight," he said.
In addition to the above information, if you want more information, I can give to you, including the history of her background, intelligence agents over the years she has been monitoring the movement of absolute evidence.
Most people in China do not know her name, and fewer people know her name in the world, there are many more well-known leader of Terrorism in the Eastern Turkstan terrorist organizations, If China for political reasons, the authorities can blame on many others, without framed on her, accusing her of planning the riots authorities because evidence mastered.
 

Mightypeon

Junior Member
VIP Professional
Cui Bono?

Well, my question is, who is going to profit from this affair?
Certainly not the Uighurs.
I doubt that China profits a lot either.

Short term, the affair may sully chinas reputation in the western public opinion a bit, but China neither would (nor should) care about that a lot.
From what I get from reading between the lines and watching some less biased sources (Vietnamese and Russian actually, both see it as local clashes going out of control, a Russian tourist who was in the area reported more Han than Uighur victims in the beginning).
The current western reporting really makes me doubt that freedom of the press actually exists.
It seems to be as biased as in Georgia, and I am not buying that bullcrap that the "Evil Chinese Gouverment" has nothing better to do than to "enslave and supress their poor misbegotten minorities" anyway.

What I see in the future:
-it will create some kind of a trap for countries that agreed to take the Uighurs from Guantanamo.
Imagine that you are Merkel or Sarkozy, because you want to carry some favor with the US you more or less agree to take in some Uighurs. On that matter, you appease the PRC in some different ways (like, f.e. giving them informations about precisly what the Uighurs are up to in Germany, Munich has quite a number of the "exile Uighurs leadership"). The entire incident will really really really increase the cost of taking up Uighurs prisoners from Gitmo, which could have a potential of making the entire "Close Gitmo" project fail, which would in turn have serious consequences on the next US election.

Oh my, I am sounding a lot like a conspiracy theorist right now am I?
 

Shifty

New Member
Registered Member
Cui Bono?

Well, my question is, who is going to profit from this affair?
Certainly not the Uighurs.
I doubt that China profits a lot either.

Short term, the affair may sully chinas reputation in the western public opinion a bit, but China neither would (nor should) care about that a lot.
From what I get from reading between the lines and watching some less biased sources (Vietnamese and Russian actually, both see it as local clashes going out of control, a Russian tourist who was in the area reported more Han than Uighur victims in the beginning).
The current western reporting really makes me doubt that freedom of the press actually exists.
It seems to be as biased as in Georgia, and I am not buying that bullcrap that the "Evil Chinese Gouverment" has nothing better to do than to "enslave and supress their poor misbegotten minorities" anyway.

What I see in the future:
-it will create some kind of a trap for countries that agreed to take the Uighurs from Guantanamo.
Imagine that you are Merkel or Sarkozy, because you want to carry some favor with the US you more or less agree to take in some Uighurs. On that matter, you appease the PRC in some different ways (like, f.e. giving them informations about precisly what the Uighurs are up to in Germany, Munich has quite a number of the "exile Uighurs leadership"). The entire incident will really really really increase the cost of taking up Uighurs prisoners from Gitmo, which could have a potential of making the entire "Close Gitmo" project fail, which would in turn have serious consequences on the next US election.

Oh my, I am sounding a lot like a conspiracy theorist right now am I?
I really doubt those countries that took them in would easily just give up information to the Chinese government. What benefit would Germany or France gain from telling China about the actions of the Uighurs. I may not be seeing the entire picture, but the reason they take them in, as I understand, is so the Uighurs don't get deported back to China and tortured or executed. I really don't see why these Western developed countries would want to do that for China, they really don't do anything else for them, besides sell diesel engines and military tech... lol
 

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