Exactly those, but with the second photo I see the launchers were further forward and far larger.
Well, the Kuznetsovs were cruisers more than carriers, so there is that, lol.
CV-17 Shandong (002 carrier) Thread I ...News, Views and operations
- Thread starter Jeff Head
- Start date
- Status
Exactly those, but with the second photo I see the launchers were further forward and far larger.
Well, the Kuznetsovs were cruisers more than carriers, so there is that, lol.
Kuznetsov's carried half the AShMs as Kirovs at double the load. No, they were not primarily cruisers.
They were. Their designations as a heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser had to do a lot more than just crossing the Bosphorus as they where pretty much capable of operating on its own without the requirement of an escort fleet given the massive amounts of short and medium range air-defense systems, 12 massive AShM( Kirovs only have 20, not 24. You might be mixing it up with the Oscar-II's which do have 24 missiles) not far from the Varyag's 16 older P-500, supplemented with airplanes for the long range air defense duties.
Comparing the weapon loadouts of a 50000 ton ship and a 10000 ton ship and coming to the fact that they're nearly equal should give a good idea on how much space was dedicated to aircraft and aviation support equipment.
If the Kuznetzov class were truly designed as cruisers first, they would carry torpedo-tubes and DP guns like every other Soviet Navy cruiser design.
If the Kuznetzov class were truly designed as cruisers first, they would carry torpedo-tubes and DP guns like every other Soviet Navy cruiser design.
Yep, this was learned well enough during the flight trials.
In fact, future Liaoning was originally built w/o ASM tubes.
When you study Kuznetsov's design, you shall take their lineage into account.
Yes, Kuznetsov is obviously a carrier first and foremost. But a carrier with design evolving directly from hybrid warships(and their airwing had a very strong emphasis on ASW rotary wing on top of that).
We often overlook it thanks to carrier features, but the original Kiev was, in fact, the single strongest surface warship in the world when she was completed.
Furthermore: 1st ship of 1143 line, Kiev, had 2x5 torpedo tubes.
Only Baku(Gorshkov), ship right before the Kuznetsov, had finally dispensed with SA-N-3 Storm and ASW missiles.
Storm was gone not because it was a carrier from now on, but because shiny new Yak-141s+Ka-31(AEW) and Ka-27s were simply better at their respective missions; the ship still retained full "combat" sensor suite, DP artillery, etc.
Kuznetsov was viewed as an evolution of this, but with a true fixed-wing, massively increasing CAP range and loitering time.
That's the point: instead of revolutionary carrier designs, Krechets evolved step-by-step.
It was part of a concept: Kuznetsov provides CAP screen to the cruiser strike group, and at the same time, contributes to its heavy missile salvo, something only large combatants could do. Shipwrecks are that large.
In actuality it turned out to be a bad idea: air defense or strike, if you carry fixed-wing aircraft, do it properly.
First of all, Kuznetsov has a very low jet fuel storage("CAP only"): only 1143.7(Ulyuanovsk) was in fact a 100% capable carrier in all regards.
On top of that, any missile salvo not only requires aircraft to be moved the hell out of the way, but also a full debris check afterward.
Last edited:
Fair, I didn't think of the history perspective. Personally my view is that the Soviet Navy realised carrier-cruiser hybrids were too valuable to risk for direct-fire or torpedo salvos, thus in the Kuznetzov iteration they removed those aspects but kept the AShMs as they could be used at a non-suicidal range.
Sort of. At the time of the fall, the Soviet surface fleet was moving away from being completely dedicated to the "battle of the first salvo" to a true blue water navy in a traditional sense.
Again, they were for long range air-defense mostly. Comparatively, the Kuznetsov had an smaller air-wing than the Midways. Even the rebuilt Essex had a larger aircraft complement before their conversion to ASW roles.
There is little space where to put guns without either affecting their functionality or that of the ship. Plus the Flankers had their own guns and rockets if you really really needed to hammer something. As for ASW, the Kuznetsov has the same Udav-1 anti-submarine suite as the Udaloys and Kirovs, with its own hull mounted sonars.
Gloire provided a better and more concise explanation.
- Status