Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

vesicles

Colonel
So it should be all live animal sales to the general public that needs to be banned, not just exotic animals.

We live in the real world, and know that merely banning something doesn’t magically stop people from wanting and supplying it. So banning exotic meats is at best a pointless PR move, and at worst a totally counter productive step in limiting the risks of future pandemics.

In terms of food hygiene standards, farmed animals are safest because you can control every aspect of their lives. That means you want to expand exotic meat production with big farms. That will flood the market and drive prices down. That will both help consolidate the market by driving out small farms who tend to be the worst offenders in terms of poor hygiene and animal welfare; and also make poaching and smuggling pointless, thereby eliminating the key risk factors.

I completely agree with the banning of all live animal sales.
 

solarz

Brigadier
Wildlife trade has been banned for years, pretty much all the exotic meats on sale in China are either farmed, or smuggled in from abroad.

Banning farming exotic meats without dealing with demand will just drive the farms underground and/or result in more smuggling. Either way it’s only going to make the hygiene situation worse not better.

Many overseas Chinese gets overly sensitive about things like wet markets because the western MSM loves to raise them as a ‘reminder’ of how ‘backwards’ and ‘uncivilised’ China is, and they hold the naive belief that banning such practices will somehow elevate their own status in the eyes of the foreign people they live and deal with on a daily basis.

Unfortunately I have a news flash for you, even if you ban wet markets and exotic meats today, the western MSM will pick another cultural difference and declare that ‘backwards and uncouth’ and use that fresh new stick to bash China and Chinese people with.

To try to appease the western MSM is a fools game that you will never win.

Just look at Japan and South Korea. They have transformed massively culturally to align with western tastes and sensitivities, and there is zero political pressure for the western MSM to bash them, but everyone now and then the western MSM still like to run stories trashing them for cultural traditions they find distasteful like whale hunting or eating dog meat.

The focus on how to minimise the risk of future pandemics shouldn’t be driven by what the western MSM finds most distasteful, but rather on what the true root causes and highest risk factors as well as most effective mitigation strategies are.

The key risk factor for disease transmissions is having live large numbers of animals being kept and sold in urban population centers. You cannot have effective food safety standard processes in place in that case, and if there is an outbreak you have almost zero window to spot it and stop it reaching the general population.

So it should be all live animal sales to the general public that needs to be banned, not just exotic animals.

We live in the real world, and know that merely banning something doesn’t magically stop people from wanting and supplying it. So banning exotic meats is at best a pointless PR move, and at worst a totally counter productive step in limiting the risks of future pandemics.

In terms of food hygiene standards, farmed animals are safest because you can control every aspect of their lives. That means you want to expand exotic meat production with big farms. That will flood the market and drive prices down. That will both help consolidate the market by driving out small farms who tend to be the worst offenders in terms of poor hygiene and animal welfare; and also make poaching and smuggling pointless, thereby eliminating the key risk factors.

It's not about "appeasing the West", it's about reducing the risk of zoonotic viral transmissions.

China has a pretty good record on banning certain practices if the central government puts some drive behind the local governments. I agree that all live avian and mammal meats need to be banned, but wild animal meats are especially concerning because the source is completely unknown. With farmed animals, at least you can do regular health inspections on the farm sites.

Finally, there's a reason "exotic" meats are "exotic". Not all animals can be farmed. Yes, the demand needs to be curbed as well, and that can be achieved through a sustained campaign of education.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
No need for the all caps. Yes, it has been my conjecture. I have never said it’s their conclusion. It has been my conjecture about these wet markets for years. I also admit that I have no concrete evidence that the COVID-19 came directly from a wet market. Nobody does. However, because of the amount of live wild animals congregated at any of these wet markets, statistically speaking, the chances of any contagion becoming transmissible are so much higher at these markets, where huge amount of people and wild animals gather in one small place.

It has nothing to do with the West. I’ve disliked the way wild animals are handled in East Asia ever since I watched a documentary about how people in Guangdong ate the brains of live monkeys back in the late 1980’s when I still lived in China. I still remember how the poor monkeys screamed in their cages when people scooped their brains while making yummy noises. That was a documentary made by the CCTV. I hated it. I hated it. I hated it!!! To be sure, I’m not soft. I’ve killed my fair share of animals in my lab experiments and during my hunting trips. But how animals are treated at these wet markets is beyond words. These wet markets are inhumane and cruel. I’m for the complete banning of these markets altogether. The modern Chinese have no use for it, no need for it. If they want excitement, go and do some hunting themselves.

I agree that this way of living has existed in China for centuries. However, that should not the basis for maintaining them. We’ve had many “traditions” that we’ve had to abandon for better ones. In the 1970’s, the Chinese government decided to modify the Chinese language for easy learning and faster writing. Shouldn’t the very language of your culture be maintained? but they changed it to improve the literacy of the Chinese people, hence the simplified Chinese that you see today. A wet market has so much less significance than the Chinese language. Why so hard to abandon it?

and with this, we are going to STOP! this thread is NOT about the wet meat markets in CHINA, where authorities initially stated they had traced Covid-19 to the wet meat market in Wuhan! as well it is not a thread to bash China or US or President Xi or President Trump!

Most of you continue to do a very fine job, vesicle's posts are an example of knowledgeable, professional
and respectful, most of you are doing an outstanding job on this thread: keep up the good work!

Webby and Deino have issued specific instructions to keep your post respectful, there are consequences for those who do NOT follow these very specific, yet very simple instructions: do not respond to this "moderation"!
 

Rettam Stacf

Junior Member
Registered Member
Cannot find an appropriate thread to post this. But since the article mentioned "coronavirus (Covid-19)", "health infrastructure" and "manufacture of health care products", this thread looks as good as any.

Mod, if there is an EU Economy thread, feel free to move it there. I tried (not very hard) but could not find one.

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Key Points
  • European authorities issue communications calling for vigilance regarding potential predatory acquisitions.
  • The request comes as the EU is preparing to implement regulations to include the screening of acquisitions and investment on security and public order grounds.
The EU has warned member states to remain vigilant on foreign direct investment (FDI) and the movement of capital from third countries during the current coronavirus (Covid-19) crisis in an effort to protect strategic industries.

"The Covid-19 related emergency is having pervasive effects on the economy of the E U. As part of the overall response, the European Commission also singled out the issue of foreign direct investment screening. Among the possible consequences of the current economic shock is an increased potential risk to strategic industries, in particular but by no means limited to healthcare-related industries," the Commission said in a communication on 25 March.

As a result, member states have been asked to make full use of FDI screening mechanisms to protect the healthcare sector, the supply of critical inputs, as well as other sectors involved in supporting efforts to fight the Covid-19 pandemic.

Noting that national screening mechanisms are in place for 14 of the 27 member states, the Commission called on governments lacking such regulations to create "a full-fledged screening mechanism, and in the meantime to use all other available options to address cases where the acquisition or control of a particular business, infrastructure or technology would create a risk to security or public order in the EU, including a risk to critical health infrastructures and supply of critical inputs."

Of key concern to the Commission in the latest update has been the risk of the acquisition of companies involved in the manufacture of healthcare products or related industries such as research establishments.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
Cannot find an appropriate thread to post this. But since the article mentioned "coronavirus (Covid-19)", "health infrastructure" and "manufacture of health care products", this thread looks as good as any.

Mod, if there is an EU Economy thread, feel free to move it there. I tried (not very hard) but could not find one.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Key Points
  • European authorities issue communications calling for vigilance regarding potential predatory acquisitions.
  • The request comes as the EU is preparing to implement regulations to include the screening of acquisitions and investment on security and public order grounds.
The EU has warned member states to remain vigilant on foreign direct investment (FDI) and the movement of capital from third countries during the current coronavirus (Covid-19) crisis in an effort to protect strategic industries.

"The Covid-19 related emergency is having pervasive effects on the economy of the E U. As part of the overall response, the European Commission also singled out the issue of foreign direct investment screening. Among the possible consequences of the current economic shock is an increased potential risk to strategic industries, in particular but by no means limited to healthcare-related industries," the Commission said in a communication on 25 March.

As a result, member states have been asked to make full use of FDI screening mechanisms to protect the healthcare sector, the supply of critical inputs, as well as other sectors involved in supporting efforts to fight the Covid-19 pandemic.

Noting that national screening mechanisms are in place for 14 of the 27 member states, the Commission called on governments lacking such regulations to create "a full-fledged screening mechanism, and in the meantime to use all other available options to address cases where the acquisition or control of a particular business, infrastructure or technology would create a risk to security or public order in the EU, including a risk to critical health infrastructures and supply of critical inputs."

Of key concern to the Commission in the latest update has been the risk of the acquisition of companies involved in the manufacture of healthcare products or related industries such as research establishments.

It's the fallout from this event:

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s002wjh

Junior Member
You are culturaly condition to accept that the virus come from wet market Sofar there is no proof. I concede that it is not acceptable to eat wild meat in western dominated culture and it is abhorrent But sofar they haven't found any hard evidence that the COVID 19 come from Wuhan wet market Some of the first victim of Covid 19 has never been in the wet market . The PRC just closed it to satisfy the popular demand and in the heat of outbreak they just closed it to minimized risk They did said that early on but seem to backtrack latter
Certainly the article clearly debunk the myth that the virus come from wet market!
the article is one, and doesn't prove anything, there are plenty theory/article from pretty much everywhere. the exact origin with definite evidence may never exist, but the fact is pretty much everyone in the world think its from Wuhan right now, the only way to dispute that is WHO said otherwise.
 

OppositeDay

Senior Member
Registered Member
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Chinese Ministry of Commerce, Chinese Customs and the National Medical Products Administration have announced new policy on exporting PPEs, test kits and ventilators. These products must be NMPA-approved, and the exporter must declare that the products meet the regulatory requirements of the destination country.

Really it should be up to the importing countries to regulate their own medical equipment markets, but even Europeans seemed to be incapable of doing this - they basically allowed their importers to buy whatever available from China without any real regulatory supervision and blamed China when the product didn't work. So Chinese authorities decided they had to babysit everyone and require NMPA approvals for exports.
 

Faithlock

New Member
Registered Member
A good article on the development of vaccine.

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My very concise summary:
----
Three most promising vaccines:

The US vaccine (mRNA-1273): Could have it by fall this year. But it might just kill you before the virus does.

The Chinese vaccine (Ad5-nCoV): The front runner across the globe. It should be out by December this year. This one is safe but probably will not help you.

The British vaccine (ChAdOx1): This one is safe and effective. But you are probably dead by then because the vaccine won’t be out until May 2021.
 
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