Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

[shanlung]

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How about the same message from a very pretty Czech girl on the importance of wearing masks?
Even handkerchief or scarf on the face.

You can take your chances with a few viruses getting in via the less than perfect mask such as surgicqal masks or even N95 which not expected to stop ALL viruses.

BUT

You stop droplets, tiny droplets that might be carrying 100k to 500k of viruses.
Equivalent of a nuke going off in your nose or lung as against a virus or 2.

I wear a N95 mask now each time I enter crowd of people graduated from surgical and Pitta masks.

I am an extreme coward if that pleases you.

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

I'm watching Donald McNeil, the health reporter for the NYTimes, on TV talking about 40,000 Chinese healthcare workers from all over China mobilized and went to Wuhan. Now they've done their job and went home. He's suggesting the US temporarily hire some of these people because they're hardcore veterans, which some are immune to coronavirus, where in the US, inexperienced med students have been rushed to graduation and are immediately dropped onto the frontlines. He admits Trump will never let that happen.

Good, if he actually gets in the way of this I'd be the first to thank him. Reading that paragraph made my blood boil. "Hire" them? Are they common mercenaries to be "hired"? They're Chinese doctors and healthcare workers, their responsibility is Chinese people's health, they're not to be "hired." It really speaks to how parasitic America's existence is that it thinks nothing of siphoning away the rest of the world's wealth and talent - that just comes naturally to it like it does to any parasite.

No, let their freshly graduated and press-ganged med students be baptized by fire.

 

[Intrepid]

How about the same message from a very pretty Czech girl on the importance of wearing masks? Even handkerchief or scarf on the face.

You can take your chances with a few viruses getting in via the less than perfect mask such as surgicqal masks or even N95 which not expected to stop ALL viruses.

BUT

You stop droplets, tiny droplets that might be carrying 100k to 500k of viruses.
Equivalent of a nuke going off in your nose or lung as against a virus or 2.

I wear a N95 mask now each time I enter crowd of people graduated from surgical and Pitta masks.

I am an extreme coward if that pleases you.

This morning it was below 0 ° C and you could see people's breath condensing everywhere. A very clear picture of how far the droplet infection can go and why we should keep our distance. No condensing breath was seen in people with protective masks or scarves in front of the mouth. This is a good way to understand why we should wear face protection when we pass other people closely.

 

[KYli]

Ordinarily, I'd be on board with the BSing and FUDing to obfuscate the issue but we're (mostly) among friends here, so we can be honest with ourselves. The virus exploded onto the scene in Wuhan because it evolved in Wuhan. It didn't magic its way from bats or snakes or wherever the hell it came into people, it jumped through sustained and prolonged contact, and wet markets are where that contact occurs. I dislike even calling them "wet markets"; they are disgusting, unsanitary, disease-ridden open-air abattoirs and those who frequent them are degenerate savages. Let me put this bluntly: there are a lot of Chinese people who need to be civilized, by force if need be.

It's the 21st century - this is how meat is sold:
View attachment 58798

The first few known patients have no contact with the wet market. So your theory is refuted unless you have proof that the virus is originated in the wet market. If the research is accurate, then the wet market just serves as a super spreader.

So you called me and many Chinese savages. Good for you! For thousands of years, the wet market exists in China and probably in other countries. It is a place that people get fresh products. Most people in China don't have refrigerators til late 90 so buying fresh vegetables, meats, fish and chicken are essential. However, many merchants are not so honest especially for meats so in order to ensure the quality of the products they prepare the meat in front of the customers. I have not been to a wet market for years but last time that I visited them in both HK and China these wet markets are much more sanitized than a decade ago. So I won't consider people who visit the wet market to buy fresh vegetable, poultry, fish or meat as degenerate savages as I have no problem with these markets myself.

As for those who think they are better and more civilized just because they don't visit wet markets, I never look kindly towards people who think they are superior. It is like many of my friends in HK who feel by writing in traditional Chinese would make them more civilized and more Chinese than the mainlanders. I never understand this kind of sentiment and superior complex.

As for those chlorinated chicken and frozen meat, it is cheap. That's all I would say. However, I do want to say that I am open minded if they put more regulations to make the wet markets more "sanitized".

 

[plawolf]

The focus on wet markets is just a little more sophisticated method of branding this a ‘Chins virus’ and serves the same aims and agenda as Trump insisting on calling it a ‘Chins virus’.

The main danger from wet markets is that large number of humans and animals come into close contact. But there are live animal markets in the west as well, hence the focus on exotic animals sold at Chinese wet markets as a means to try and blame this outbreak on the ‘uncivilised’ Chinese.

But the exotic animals sold in wet markets are almost all farmed, so functionally are little different from chickens or ducks. It is the fact that they are kept and sold live at those markets that is the risk factor.

Here is actually a perfect example of why it is actually stupid and dangerous to blindly follow the racially and ideologically motivated proscriptions of western MSM over a cold facts based scientific approach.

If you were stupid enough to follow the advice of western MSM and just focused on the exotic animal trade of wet markets and ban all them, you do little to reduce the dangers of the wet markets themselves since you will still have Chickens, ducks and other more (western) socially acceptable animals kept and sold in the same way there, while needlessly driving the exotic meat underground and reducing regulatory oversight and general hygiene standards in that industry, so you end your with a net increase in the likelihood of having another similar outbreak.

 

[duncanidaho]

Which show was that on out of interest.

I've seen a few of his interviews and pieces, and he seems to be a no-nonsense kind of person and an actual science and health reporter.

I think he is talking about this interview

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[solarz]

The focus on wet markets is just a little more sophisticated method of branding this a ‘Chins virus’ and serves the same aims and agenda as Trump insisting on calling it a ‘Chins virus’.

The main danger from wet markets is that large number of humans and animals come into close contact. But there are live animal markets in the west as well, hence the focus on exotic animals sold at Chinese wet markets as a means to try and blame this outbreak on the ‘uncivilised’ Chinese.

But the exotic animals sold in wet markets are almost all farmed, so functionally are little different from chickens or ducks. It is the fact that they are kept and sold live at those markets that is the risk factor.

Here is actually a perfect example of why it is actually stupid and dangerous to blindly follow the racially and ideologically motivated proscriptions of western MSM over a cold facts based scientific approach.

If you were stupid enough to follow the advice of western MSM and just focused on the exotic animal trade of wet markets and ban all them, you do little to reduce the dangers of the wet markets themselves since you will still have Chickens, ducks and other more (western) socially acceptable animals kept and sold in the same way there, while needlessly driving the exotic meat underground and reducing regulatory oversight and general hygiene standards in that industry, so you end your with a net increase in the likelihood of having another similar outbreak.

You need to regulate and enforce the distribution chain at all levels, from the farms to the markets.

Wildlife and exotic animals trade need to be banned for both health and environmental reasons.

 

[plawolf]

You need to regulate and enforce the distribution chain at all levels, from the farms to the markets.

Wildlife and exotic animals trade need to be banned for both health and environmental reasons.

Wildlife trade has been banned for years, pretty much all the exotic meats on sale in China are either farmed, or smuggled in from abroad.

Banning farming exotic meats without dealing with demand will just drive the farms underground and/or result in more smuggling. Either way it’s only going to make the hygiene situation worse not better.

Many overseas Chinese gets overly sensitive about things like wet markets because the western MSM loves to raise them as a ‘reminder’ of how ‘backwards’ and ‘uncivilised’ China is, and they hold the naive belief that banning such practices will somehow elevate their own status in the eyes of the foreign people they live and deal with on a daily basis.

Unfortunately I have a news flash for you, even if you ban wet markets and exotic meats today, the western MSM will pick another cultural difference and declare that ‘backwards and uncouth’ and use that fresh new stick to bash China and Chinese people with.

To try to appease the western MSM is a fools game that you will never win.

Just look at Japan and South Korea. They have transformed massively culturally to align with western tastes and sensitivities, and there is zero political pressure for the western MSM to bash them, but everyone now and then the western MSM still like to run stories trashing them for cultural traditions they find distasteful like whale hunting or eating dog meat.

The focus on how to minimise the risk of future pandemics shouldn’t be driven by what the western MSM finds most distasteful, but rather on what the true root causes and highest risk factors as well as most effective mitigation strategies are.

The key risk factor for disease transmissions is having live large numbers of animals being kept and sold in urban population centers. You cannot have effective food safety standard processes in place in that case, and if there is an outbreak you have almost zero window to spot it and stop it reaching the general population.

So it should be all live animal sales to the general public that needs to be banned, not just exotic animals.

We live in the real world, and know that merely banning something doesn’t magically stop people from wanting and supplying it. So banning exotic meats is at best a pointless PR move, and at worst a totally counter productive step in limiting the risks of future pandemics.

In terms of food hygiene standards, farmed animals are safest because you can control every aspect of their lives. That means you want to expand exotic meat production with big farms. That will flood the market and drive prices down. That will both help consolidate the market by driving out small farms who tend to be the worst offenders in terms of poor hygiene and animal welfare; and also make poaching and smuggling pointless, thereby eliminating the key risk factors.

 

[Mohsin77]

Let me put this bluntly: there are a lot of Chinese people who need to be civilized, by force if need be.

It's interesting how a self-proclaimed 'Chinese Nationalist' such as yourself, is so enamored by everything Western. If you believe that 'civilized' = whatever the West does, then you're basically a European Colonialist from the 19th century... or something far worse... one of their self-hating colonial subjects, who would fetch them tea and sing their praises, while beating their own people in the streets. This also explains why you are always lecturing Pakistanis and Muslims here for refusing to 'civilize' along Western lines...

Of course, this is a general point, which goes beyond 'wet markets' etc. Just noting your general attitude and behavior on this forum which I've observed. You're not alone by the way, there are people in my civilization that have the same affliction.

 

[vesicles]

I am not so sure about that Wet market has been in existence for a long time and still is all over Asia and South east Asia, In fact if you talk about bat the indigineous of North Celebes consider it as delicasy And they have been eaten for generation and still is as we speak now. I never heard any virus outbreak over there

Our abhorence about wild meat market are culturally condition because that what the western culture and media told us.
And I am not so sure you can make connection between wet market and virus outbreak The article DOES NOT SAY THAT IT COME FROM WET MARKET! IT YOUR CONJECTURE!

I dont have any problem with strict regulation of wet market and maybe eating wild meat is culturally not acceptable in western dominated society But that is beside the point!

No need for the all caps. Yes, it has been my conjecture. I have never said it’s their conclusion. It has been my conjecture about these wet markets for years. I also admit that I have no concrete evidence that the COVID-19 came directly from a wet market. Nobody does. However, because of the amount of live wild animals congregated at any of these wet markets, statistically speaking, the chances of any contagion becoming transmissible are so much higher at these markets, where huge amount of people and wild animals gather in one small place.

It has nothing to do with the West. I’ve disliked the way wild animals are handled in East Asia ever since I watched a documentary about how people in Guangdong ate the brains of live monkeys back in the late 1980’s when I still lived in China. I still remember how the poor monkeys screamed in their cages when people scooped their brains while making yummy noises. That was a documentary made by the CCTV. I hated it. I hated it. I hated it!!! To be sure, I’m not soft. I’ve killed my fair share of animals in my lab experiments and during my hunting trips. But how animals are treated at these wet markets is beyond words. These wet markets are inhumane and cruel. I’m for the complete banning of these markets altogether. The modern Chinese have no use for it, no need for it. If they want excitement, go and do some hunting themselves.

I agree that this way of living has existed in China for centuries. However, that should not the basis for maintaining them. We’ve had many “traditions” that we’ve had to abandon for better ones. In the 1970’s, the Chinese government decided to modify the Chinese language for easy learning and faster writing. Shouldn’t the very language of your culture be maintained? but they changed it to improve the literacy of the Chinese people, hence the simplified Chinese that you see today. A wet market has so much less significance than the Chinese language. Why so hard to abandon it?