Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

[taxiya]

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That's how the western MSM twist things. The reality is "May I have a look at another one?", "oh, I don't remember where it is, let me send you later." In the mouth of western MSM it becomes, "I request this." "No. you can't have this.".

This is also what have been saying, that even if there is honest professionals in the west speaking the truth, their words will certainly be twisted to fit the agenda of MSM or silenced all together.

The same goes with the "full data of vaccine trail", "where is the full data?", "I am compiling", "China is hiding data."

On the other hand about the western vaccine. The review report said "based on the current available data, we have a 91%", the MSM "it is 91%", and nobody ask "where is the full data?" or "when will the full data be ready" or "what is the outcome of the full data?"

 

[texx1]

Think about it.

China has already agreed to send vaccines to Czechia at the request of the President.
Note that the President was previously the Prime Minister.

The audience who will be receiving these Chinese vaccines are by definition receptive.
So from the Chinese perspective, China would want to supply as many vaccines as possible.

And after this announcement, suddenly the EU approves an additional 100,000 doses of vaccine for the Czech Republic.

Even the Czech anti-China hardliners have to acknowledge that the President's relationship with China has been beneficial.

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I am not surprised that China agreed. PRC's default stance is being the nice guy that almost everyone can pick on.

Those that received Chinese vaccines would probably be cussing why they couldn't be given "high quality" European vaccines.

China simply doesn't have the necessary soft power infrastructure to generate or maintain positive PR in foreign countries. All those good deeds would very quickly be diminished or corrupted into anti-china narratives. I still remember reading about Czech people believe China sent masks to them at the height of covid because Chinese were atoning for the crime of releasing covid on the world.

 

[LawLeadsToPeace]

I am not surprised that China agreed. PRC's default stance is being the nice guy that almost everyone can pick on.

Those that received Chinese vaccines would probably be cussing why they couldn't be given "high quality" European vaccines.

China simply doesn't have the necessary soft power infrastructure to generate or maintain positive PR in foreign countries. All those good deeds would very quickly be diminished or corrupted into anti-china narratives. I still remember reading about Czech people believe China sent masks to them at the height of covid because Chinese were atoning for the crime of releasing covid on the world.

Good point. The issue with sending the Czechs and any other anti-China people the vaccines is that they will think China is trying to apologize to them. This will strengthen their resolve against China and cause huge headaches in the future. Chinese foreign policy has always been extremely naive and childish to the point that it is laughable.

 

[Quickie]

Meanwhile, the propaganda to blame China by Western media continues unrestrained probably with the intention of causing maximum damage to the country.

 

[j17wang]

Good point. The issue with sending the Czechs and any other anti-China people the vaccines is that they will think China is trying to apologize to them. This will strengthen their resolve against China and cause huge headaches in the future. Chinese foreign policy has always been extremely naive and childish to the point that it is laughable.

It doesn't matter. Chinese know we are righteous and our resolve is more powerful than some passing hatred from the west. We are just the topic of the day like muslims in the 90's or Indians in the future. Besides, China is much more resilient than the entire muslim world, which is of similar size but not as united ethnically, economically, or culturally.

It actually doesn't matter if Czechs hate on Chinese. If they take the vaccine, they take the vaccine. You can't untake something unlike the fact that you can smash a chinese TV you bought like some idiots are doing in India. Meanwhile China gets to say that millions of EU citizens have voluntarily taken sinopharm vaccine, and will help increase our visibility in Latin America, SEA, Africa, and ME, which are the real markets.

Let the Czech's explain their decision to americans or europe who probably didnt want Sinopharm to be used anywhere, even if it means more deaths. This is factually how americans think. Also let the czech's self-hate once they are done taking the vaccine, and let Taiwan sweat a little if they think this is somehow compromising their budding relationship with the country. Tbh, vaccine diplomacy is probably a bit over-rated, but it helps to keep the thinktanks sweating (especially since they can't also give away vaccines without compromising their own strategy).

Whether or not this actually changes perceptions of china is less important than showing china has the ability to exercise counteroffensives against the US empire. Hopefully, the counteroffensive can be coordinated with Russia, such as the fact that Vietnam is willing to take Sputnik V, while Poland and Ukraine are willing to take Sinopharm. The primary objective in the European theatre is to pull away countries away from US domination, not for us to take the US's place. In this respect, it would be helpful for Russia and China to take a coordinated approach.

China doesnt need to win every fight against the US, but it sure the hell can help make sure it prevents the US from emerging #1 in any sphere, or at least not without a fight.

 

[KYli]

I highly suspect western European countries would follow suit. I foresee more bad PR from inevitable negative news/hit pieces about side effects and suspected death related to Chinese vaccines in Czech republic. All of it would serve to increase more doubt about the effectiveness and quality of Chinese vaccines.

Czech being a small power is precisely the reason why many Chinese citizens are angry. Being submissive and appeasing to superpower like US is at least understandable given the power disparity. PRC's action is not befitting of a great power when small countries can easily take advantage of it with impunity.

Let's not generalize mainland Chinese view towards vaccination. Significant potions of the population want covid vaccines so they can return to their normal lives without worrying about masks and other covid measures. Those that experienced lock-downs in northeast provinces late last year are especially vocal about mass vaccination. The wait and see approach are mainly held by those haven't been seriously impacted by covid.

It doesn't really matter if Czech people would be thankful to China for providing them vaccines. As long as some EU countries were forced to ask for and take Chinese vaccines, then it is a PR win. It shows to the world that China is willing to set aside difference and provide help, it shows to the world that even the Europeans would need to use Chinese vaccines even though their media keep bashing Chinese vaccines.

It is still US-led international liberal order, like it or not. China needs to fight smartly and wisely. Don't let nationalistic view to cloud judgement. If those Chinese nationalists have their way, then China would have already engaged in multiple wars with its neighbors.

As for vaccination in China, even Beijing is having a hard time to get people vaccinated. You think other provinces would do much better. Beijing has had multiple lockdown and good health care system but still failed behind its goal. I believe they want to vaccinate 50 millions people before Lunar New Year but now has been delayed to the end of March. Beside vaccination isn't going to end covid measures. Wearing masks are not mandatory for most places now.

 

[Tyler]

It doesn't really matter if Czech people would be thankful to China for providing them vaccines. As long as some EU countries were forced to ask for and take Chinese vaccines, then it is a PR win. It shows to the world that China is willing to set aside difference and provide help, it shows to the world that even the Europeans would need to use Chinese vaccines even though their media keep bashing Chinese vaccines.

It is still US-led international liberal order, like it or not. China needs to fight smartly and wisely. Don't let nationalistic view to cloud judgement. If those Chinese nationalists have their way, then China would have already engaged in multiple wars with its neighbors.

As for vaccination in China, even Beijing is having a hard time to get people vaccinated. You think other provinces would do much better. Beijing has had multiple lockdown and good health care system but still failed behind its goal. I believe they want to vaccinate 50 millions people before Lunar New Year but now has been delayed to the end of March. Beside vaccination isn't going to end covid measures. Wearing masks are not mandatory for most places now.

They should speed up the vaccination in order to reach immunity for preventing local variants. As the world's economy opens up, the Chinese need to defend against foreign variants. From the speed they can perform testing, it looks like they can speed up vaccination as long as the production can scale up.

 

[KYli]

They should speed up the vaccination in order to reach immunity for preventing local variants. As the world's economy opens up, the Chinese need to defend against foreign variants. From the speed they can perform testing, it looks like they can speed up vaccination as long as the production can scale up.

I would prefer China to wait for the outcome of the US and European nations before trying to reach herd immunity. Those variants from South Africa and Brazil might require a booster shot. Vaccinating 40% of its population by July is a reasonable goal.

Testing is mandatory but vaccination is voluntary. It isn't like China doesn't have vaccines to ramp up vaccination. It is just taking time to convince people to be vaccinated.

If things went well in the US, then herd immunity might be possible in July or August. However, it is a big if since many people might be reluctant to take vaccines. As for European nations, they would be lucky to achieve herd immunity in September or even much later. I think people are getting ahead of themselves regarding the herd immunity and open up of international travel. Most experts have been warning it will take 2-3 years to end this pandemic. Looking at the third wave in Brazil and Eastern European nations, I think this assessment is more likely be the truth.

 

[texx1]

It doesn't really matter if Czech people would be thankful to China for providing them vaccines. As long as some EU countries were forced to ask for and take Chinese vaccines, then it is a PR win. It shows to the world that China is willing to set aside difference and provide help, it shows to the world that even the Europeans would need to use Chinese vaccines even though their media keep bashing Chinese vaccines.

It is still US-led international liberal order, like it or not. China needs to fight smartly and wisely. Don't let nationalistic view to cloud judgement. If those Chinese nationalists have their way, then China would have already engaged in multiple wars with its neighbors.

As for vaccination in China, even Beijing is having a hard time to get people vaccinated. You think other provinces would do much better. Beijing has had multiple lockdown and good health care system but still failed behind its goal. I believe they want to vaccinate 50 millions people before Lunar New Year but now has been delayed to the end of March. Beside vaccination isn't going to end covid measures. Wearing masks are not mandatory for most places now.

Nationalists want China to be more selective at doling out aids and vaccines. They are not asking for physical confrontation. Let's not get ourselves into furthering the false premise that Chinese assertiveness means aggression.

Lockdown in Beijing was somewhat mild compared to less developed northern provinces because Beijing has enough personnel and resources to implement targeted lockdown. Instead of locking down entire city or county, Beijing only quarantined apartment complexes or several city blocks. Their impact on the public was relatively small compared to what people at less developed area endured.

From my own relatives in mainland, vaccines are currently being offered to port workers, custom agents, some healthcare professionals and anybody with valid international travel plans. State owned enterprises can also arrange vaccines for its employees. But the general public can't just call a local hospital and get a shot. China should widen its vaccination effort. Give vaccine to people like my cousins who actually want it.

 

[j17wang]

They should speed up the vaccination in order to reach immunity for preventing local variants. As the world's economy opens up, the Chinese need to defend against foreign variants. From the speed they can perform testing, it looks like they can speed up vaccination as long as the production can scale up.

China can and should take the time to do a gradual vaccination campaign because:
1) the costs of a mass vaccination campaign and its potential benefits is not attractive right now
2) the best way to reduce COVID in china right now is to reduce the importing of COVID from other countries (therefore vaccinating other countries is the priority)
3) New variants have only gotten our attention starting in December, the science is still new on how all the vaccines, which were developed using the genetic code from feb/mar would work against multiple variants
4) Sinopharm/Sinovac represent inactivated viruses which china probably wouldn't have developed had it had the confidence in mRNA. mRNA is better if you can have the cold chains for it (which china actually does). In a few more months, china's mRNA and subunit vaccines will go on-line, which gives china the full plate of vaccine options it needs. Anything available in the west will have its domestic analogue. Some might work better, we just dont know.
5) the chances of a massive wave overwhelming china in later half of this year is incredibly remote, given appropriate levels of public education, remote technology, and government mobilization.