Chinese semiconductor industry


weig2000

Senior Member
China main strategic semiconductor opportunity lies at electric vehicle sector not cellphone, PC, AI or Server. It's estimated by 2025 , there will annual electric car ouput of 5 million in China market alone and each electric car take about 400 to 500 chips. It will go up more in the future. Maybe needs 10,000 chip in each electric vehicle further in future.

So do the math, by 2025, 5million cars *500=2.5billion chip each year just for electric car in China market.

And 28nm process is sufficient for 90% of 2.5billion chips annually.

That's expansion of 28nm capacity is greatly needed. Beijing and Shenzhen currently expands at this node. More will come online to meet the great demand for electric vehicle.

Indeed, if you\ incorporate the autonomous driving capability, EVs are just giant computers plus all kinds of sensors plus software.
 

t2contra

Major
China would encounter technical difficulties.

SMIC has a record revenue year in 2020 over $4 billion and majority of that from mature process above 28nm.

Overcoming the technical difficulties is still the goal which will open up the usage of domestic chips in such itinerant applications as cellphones and pcs.
 

gelgoog

Captain
Registered Member
Node shrinkage can stop purely because of commercial reasons too. For most of the chip industry, profit margins are extremely low. Each new process used to almost half the costs for the same performance. Now it is around 10%. This why most of the chips don't use below 10 nm processes. Nobody used 5 nm except Apple and Huawei initially.

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"Using multiple patterning, chipmakers extended 193nm lithography down to 7nm. But at today’s 5nm process node, it’s too complex to use these techniques. That’s where EUV fits in. EUV simplifies the process and enables chipmakers to pattern the most difficult features at 7nm and beyond. “A single EUV exposure replaces three or more (DUV) optical exposures."

"Meanwhile, at the high end, Intel has opted to wait for EUV pellicles, because it tends to develop large chips using single die reticles. In a worst-case scenario, the yield hit from just one particle adder in a single-die reticle is 100%, which translates to zero yields, according to analysts. In the same scenario, you would obtain 50% less yield in a two-die reticle, analyst said.

So pellicles are critical for large die sizes, but less essential for smaller chips. In the same scenario, you would obtain only 4% less yield for a 25-die reticle"

"Nonetheless, Samsung and TSMC initially moved into EUV production without pellicles, simply because these components weren’t ready. The results are mixed."

Basically until now it has been impossible to use EUV without having more defects per area than with prior processes. This means manufacturing large chips like desktop/server CPUs and GPUs is not feasible. That is why you have seen smaller chips like smartphone chips being produced first. Each defect has less impact because the chips on the wafer are smaller. This is also one reason why we see the industry moving to things like chiplets which reduce the amount of die area which uses higher end manufacturing processes.

Part of the issue why 10nm and smaller are so expensive is the amount of exposures and etch steps you need to use because of multiple patterning. With EUV you need to use less steps and as the light source intensity increases this will mean it will eventually become faster to manufacture the same amount of transistors.
 
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ansy1968

Captain
Registered Member
@foofy @Oldschool @WTAN will they work with TSMC with their 3nm project?

from CnTechPost

Chinese firm says its high-end etching equipment already used in customer's 5nm chip production line​

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April 6, 2021
Chinese semiconductor equipment company AMEC said its high-end etching equipment has been used in its customer's 5nm chip production lines.
Gerald Yin, AMEC's chairman, and managing director, revealed the development during a presentation of its 2020 annual results on April 6.
He said the company's plasma etching equipment has been used in an international tier-one customer's manufacturing lines from 65 nm to 14 nm, 7 nm, and 5 nm and other advanced IC processing lines and advanced packaging lines.
The company's 12-inch high-end etching equipment has been used on the most advanced lines of a leading international customer and for several key steps in the processing of 5nm, sub-5nm devices, Yin said.
AMEC did not specify who this customer is, but currently, the only ones with 5nm FinFET process mass production capability in the world are TSMC and Samsung, with the former having significantly more capacity.

Plasma etchers are a key piece of equipment used in chip manufacturing to perform microscopic engraving on chips with a precision of a few thousandths to tens of thousandths of a hair's diameter.
AMEC said in February that this company had etching equipment revenue of RMB 1.289 billion ($197 million) in 2020, up about 58.49 percent year-on-year.
AMEC's revenue for MOCVD equipment in 2020 will be RMB 496 million, down about 34.47% year on year.

Chinese firm says its high-end etching equipment already used in customer's 5nm chip production line-CnTechPost

(Photo: AMEC)
 

ansy1968

Captain
Registered Member
Harmony OS is in used since last year.

from CnTechPost

Chinese appliance giant Joyoung says it has started using Huawei's HarmonyOS for some of its products​

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April 6, 2021
Chinese home appliance giant Joyoung said in an answer to an investor question on April 6 that some of its products have started using Huawei's
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.
At last year's Huawei Developer Conference, Huawei unveiled HarmonyOS 2.0, and Wang Chenglu, president of the company's consumer business software division, said at the time that Chinese appliance makers including Midea, Joyoung, and Robam would soon release HarmonyOS-equipped appliances.
More than 20 products and 12 million third-party products already supported HarmonyOS at the time, Wang said, adding that hundreds of millions of devices would be running the system a year from then.
In February, Midea, another Chinese home appliance giant, said it would work more with Huawei this year to launch more HarmonyOS-powered appliances starting in April.
From last November to February, nearly 20 Midea products were equipped with HarmonyOS.


Chinese appliance giant Joyoung says it has started using Huawei's HarmonyOS for some of its products-CnTechPost
 

FriedRiceNSpice

Senior Member
I would think "cellphone, PC, AI or Server" are as important as electric cars.
Quality of chips and what process was used to manufacture the chips don't matter for majority of AI applications. Depends on what kinds of devices you plan to run AI applications on. For most AI applications, you care more about quantity and cost of the chips. A mature, cost effective 28nm process along with good chip design is sufficient for continued progress in AI.

Same applies to servers, and less so for PCs. For phones, it definitely makes a difference, primarily due to power consumption and the fact that phones are limited by their own processing power.
 

t2contra

Major
Quality of chips and what process was used to manufacture the chips don't matter for majority of AI applications. Depends on what kinds of devices you plan to run AI applications on. For most AI applications, you care more about quantity and cost of the chips. A mature, cost effective 28nm process along with good chip design is sufficient for continued progress in AI.

Same applies to servers, and less so for PCs. For phones, it definitely makes a difference, primarily due to power consumption and the fact that phones are limited by their own processing power.

As much as AI applications and servers do not need blazingly fast chips and may be supplied with China's own, without them China will lose market share to foreign brands as has happened to Huawei. Without them, she runs the risk of future sanctions from an insecure America. Then the technology can be applied elsewhere than smartphones. So let's not get smug and hope all should be well without top of the line chips.
 

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