China need a new geopolitical Doctrine ?

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AndrewS

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Just one: US sanction power...

Is that it?

If the US tried to sanction China and cut off access the US Dollar - you're looking at the end of Dollar Hegemony.
Remember that China is the world's largest trading nation, the largest manufacturing nation, largest consumer of raw materials etc etc
Other countries will just bypass the US Dollar to continue trading with China.

And let's look at the Huawei example.
Huawei has been sanctioned for over a year now.
Huawei is recently reported record sales and profits to Q2 2020.
Huawei also recently became the world's largest smartphone manufacturer.

Yes, additional sanctions may hurt Huawei, and it may become a smaller company in the next 2 years.
But in 2 years time, Huawei will have developed and be operating a technology stack that doesn't rely on US technology and components.
Then Huawei will start growing again globally, beyond the reach of any US sanctions.
 

AndrewS

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But this is under the assumption that China wants the population to expand. If China wants to manage a slow decrease in population down to a certain level in order to attain a leaner population with higher average education and quality of life, then the 2 child policy and some obstacles like this would make more sense.

I think a broadly stable population is the best option.
The infrastructure for the current population size will already have been built, and having a very high number of elderly to working-age adults is a big problem.

Take Singapore as an example.

They're paying people to have more than 3 children, but the fertility rate is still really low.
They're also big on highly-skilled workers immigrating.

I think that is likely to be China's future.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
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I'd like to take a short break from whatever it is that's going on in this thread and discuss some geopolitics for a while. Here's a short piece on the Taiwan issue I wrote entitled "The Strategic Utility of Frozen Conflicts":

I've been giving some thought to the Taiwan issue, its ultimate resolution, and how it fits into China's broader strategic and historical objectives. I'd first like to briefly comment on how I define those objectives: one is China removing the last vestige of the Century of Humiliation and reclaiming its final lost territory, Taiwan, and the other is the military expulsion of the United States from Asia and establishing China as its undisputed hegemon. While those goals overlap, they are logically distinct and thus I initially thought they could be considered in isolation, especially since the former is more readily achievable than the latter in the near future. However, I've come to the realization that separating those goals is erroneous.

To see why, I have to discuss how I thought China would approach war, and I will admit that my previous thoughts on the matter were somewhat naive. I thought that the only arbiter of whether China would go to war would be how it weighed its chances of victory and at what cost victory would come, and while that clearly is a very important consideration, it's far from the whole story. I hadn't considered what one might call the "narrative" part of a war; wars must be, for want of a better term, saleable to history.

Consider the wars America fought after it emerged victorious from the Cold War - every single one was waged against pitifully weak opponents, yet all were accompanied by grandiose narratives that bordered on the comical like "the responsibility to protect." America could have flicked countries like Serbia, Iraq, etc. off the map without regaling us with its paeans to Freedom and Democracy™ and how it was going to save the world from being swallowed up by Milosevic and Saddam.

The point isn't to poke fun at the US's hamfisted lies, it's to point out that the US had to lie. Even against such feeble enemies and at such minimal costs to itself, it still had to sell its wars. There's no reason to believe the same doesn't hold true for China. It's only soulless nationalists like Yours Truly who view war as simply one of many instruments of statecraft and the decision to go to war as reducing to a clinical cost-benefit analysis; most people don't share that sangfroid and that's probably for the best. For most, the decision to support or oppose war is a deeply emotional one based on national honour, culture, pride, fear, anger, righteousness, and what have you. Nobody ever gave "because we can win" as a reason to go to war, even though it's by far and away the best reason. There are always stories and myths involved.

Once again, China is no different - a war to reunify Taiwan would be deeply emotionally resonant in China, whereas a war to expel the US from Japan and South Korea wouldn't be, even though I believe a good argument can be made for the latter being far more strategically important. How to resolve this conundrum? Well, the solution lies in the title of this piece: defer any war with Taiwan until China is powerful enough to broaden the scope of the conflict to one of serving the latter goal (America's expulsion) primarily and the former goal (reunification) secondarily. This would allow China to advance its cold national interest under the umbrella of an emotive "righteous" war.

Following this logic, my previous thinking that China should decisively resolve the Taiwan issue the moment it attains the military capability to do so is a deeply misguided one. China would gain Taiwan, but it would lose the appreciating asset that is the frozen conflict. If after this China pursued its goal to expel the US, that would smack of a war of aggression against Japan and Korea. Even the most sympathetic supporter would be forced to admit that this was a war China chose to fight after it had unified and righted the wrongs inflicted on it. However, an identical campaign waged against Japan and Korea in the context of a reunification war against Taiwan would at the very least be controversial; it would be easy to argue that these steps are necessary to defeat US intervention in support of Taiwanese separatists. That at the end of it the US would be gone from the region, well... that's a bonus.

If the US took China seriously enough to work through a similar analysis, how would it respond? Counterintuitively, the best move would be to push Taiwan into declaring independence and then leaving it high and dry. This would have the twin benefit of nullifying China's future pretexts and give the US a face-saving way out of having to defend Taiwan. If any ally looks at the US in horror, it can simply say "I said I'd help them if they didn't do anything crazy. They did something crazy, so they're on their own." In the best spirit of "be careful what you wish for", we should not want this outcome, or any political settlement with Taiwan, before China is ready to play for all the marbles.

So here's hoping the present situation remains exactly as it is now. No war, no political settlement, no declarations of independence, no resolution of any kind. Just a conflict placed in the freezer as China pumps out warship after warship.

I think the degree of destruction is also relevant.

If it is a vicious war, Taiwan (including its semiconductor fabs) would be left in ruins, along with many Chinese casualties and the inevitable atrocities

So it's best to have an overwhemingly large mililtary, so the war is short or Taiwan capitulates without a shot.

And if Taiwan is taken, China would reorient it's military to projecting power into the Pacific.
Remember that the carriers are reliant on a logistical chain to a handful of US bases in the Pacific.
 

Canton_pop

Junior Member
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I think the degree of destruction is also relevant.

If it is a vicious war, Taiwan (including its semiconductor fabs) would be left in ruins, along with many Chinese casualties and the inevitable atrocities

So it's best to have an overwhemingly large mililtary, so the war is short or Taiwan capitulates without a shot.

And if Taiwan is taken, China would reorient it's military to projecting power into the Pacific.
Remember that the carriers are reliant on a logistical chain to a handful of US bases in the Pacific.

Taiwan is painting themselves into corner with US, they will be left themselves to US mercy, just look at how American is treating it's closest and biggest ally in Europe, listening to all the Taiwanese media over blowing their nationalism lately because of little acknowledgement from international community especially US made me wonder that they are taking a dangerous path.
 

Weaasel

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No need. An overhaul of China's pre-university education system is the key. People in China are choosing to have only 1 child now even though they have never been in a better economic situation because it is prohibitively expensive in a child's early education years due to the culture and corruption in school. Parents vie for the teacher's favor to get their kid preferential treatment on everything from seating to conflict resolution between kids. Teachers run illegal after school prep classes that cost hundreds of RMB in "tips" to attend per session and if you don't attend, your child will fall behind in testing because this is where the most ridiculously difficult test questions will be revealed. If you don't tip enough, your child won't be invited to the next session. The CCP has tried to crack down, explicitly calling these courses illegal and making rules against extra-curricular interaction between students and teachers but due to the culture, parents seek out the instructors themselves, begging for just some extra sit-down time with their kids and tipping graciously each time. This competition among parents to please educators has gotten so out of control (and escalated disproportionately faster than what even China's economic growth will allow) that now large portions of parents disposable income and time goes into buying presents for multiple teacher/principles and sending their kids to illegal prep classes to make sure their kids get into a good school early on and get treated like star pupils. Obviously, you can't treat everyone the best as it's all comparative so the price and the competitions between parents has no limits. Seeing this ordeal, parents decide they just can't handle having 2 kids. This is the key to China's low birth rate.

When I first came to the US, my parents donated generously to the public school I attended every time there was a fundraiser telling me they were afraid I'd get singled out and bullied by the teachers if they didn't. Only when they realized that this is not the culture at all here and that classroom teachers aren't even aware of parent's contributions did they stop.

That is a terrible attitude among teachers.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
That is a terrible attitude among teachers.
I wish it were only teachers. Even the teachers trying to be honest succumb to the culture and environment when parents desperately stuff gifts into their bags and red envelops into their hands while pleading, "It's nothing; it's really nothing! It's a private personal gift from us to you, nothing to do with professionalism! Just a little appreciation from the bottom of our hearts for how well you well treat our son, the joy of our lives. He loves you; he says you're his hero. Teacher Zhang is his favorite person in the world! Please, help him in any way you can; we place the only hope of our family in your hands! Don't reject our small token! I work in an air-conditioning company; let me come to your home on Saturday and install our best model for you free of charge!" Every parent claws at every chance to get their kid an unfair advantage in China. Everything has to change.
 

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
I wish it were only teachers. Even the teachers trying to be honest succumb to the culture and environment when parents desperately stuff gifts into their bags and red envelops into their hands while pleading, "It's nothing; it's really nothing! It's a private personal gift from us to you, nothing to do with professionalism! Just a little appreciation from the bottom of our hearts for how well you well treat our son, the joy of our lives. He loves you; he says you're his hero. Teacher Zhang is his favorite person in the world! Please, help him in any way you can; we place the only hope of our family in your hands! Don't reject our small token! I work in an air-conditioning company; let me come to your home on Saturday and install our best model for you free of charge!" Every parent claws at every chance to get their kid an unfair advantage in China. Everything has to change.
This is more a development problem than a cultural problem. The problem is there aren't enough reputable educational institutions to absorb the students. When talent exceeds resources, this sort of thing is bound to happen. GDP per capita has to go up, and once that happens then both the cultural symptom and the root cause of the problem can be addressed.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
This is more a development problem than a cultural problem. The problem is there aren't enough reputable educational institutions to absorb the students. When talent exceeds resources, this sort of thing is bound to happen. GDP per capita has to go up, and once that happens then both the cultural symptom and the root cause of the problem can be addressed.

The root cause is inequality between educational institutions.

If schools were all really bad or all really good, the issue wouldn't exist.

To solve it, GDP doesn't have to actually go up.

But resources and attention have to be devoted to the *lesser* schools, and also more school places created.

Schooling is one of the most labour intensive activities in an economy, plus the studies show that good primary and secondary education has really high economic returns over the course of a lifetime.

Given the global economic downturn, increased Chinese government spending on providing good education to everyone would be a boon.

Anyway back on topic.
 
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escobar

Brigadier
Is that it?

If the US tried to sanction China and cut off access the US Dollar - you're looking at the end of Dollar Hegemony.
Remember that China is the world's largest trading nation, the largest manufacturing nation, largest consumer of raw materials etc etc
Other countries will just bypass the US Dollar to continue trading with China.

And let's look at the Huawei example.
Huawei has been sanctioned for over a year now.
Huawei is recently reported record sales and profits to Q2 2020.
Huawei also recently became the world's largest smartphone manufacturer.

I'm saying US global sanction power is one proof that US is more powerfull than China, and you respond by talking about "Huawei still growing". So "Huawei still growing" is your counter-argument ? Why don't you accept the power gap recognition from China gov itself instead of making shallow argument ?

But in 2 years time, Huawei will have developed and be operating a technology stack that doesn't rely on US technology and components. Then Huawei will start growing again globally, beyond the reach of any US sanctions.

2 years? Really? OK.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
I'm saying US global sanction power is one proof that US is more powerfull than China, and you respond by talking about "Huawei still growing". So "Huawei still growing" is your counter-argument ? Why don't you accept the power gap recognition from China gov itself instead of making shallow argument ?
Although I agree that currently, the US is comprehensively still the more powerful of the two, China has far more upward momentum for growth. Basically, one person is still somewhat richer from decades of wealth accumulation but the other person has higher income.

Anybody can sanction anyone. The question is whether or not the sanctions are effective. American sanctions are sometimes effective and sometimes no longer. To have the US government put so much effort against a company like Huawei only to have Huawei continue to grow and expand by double digits is a terrible humiliation for a country that fancies itself the leader of the world. This shows erosion of American power. But that sometimes, American sanctions are still useful, at least as a temporary hindrance, and that shows that this old tool is not yet completely broken for America.
 
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