China need a new geopolitical Doctrine ?

manqiangrexue · Jul 17, 2020

@AndrewS @ZeEa5KPul
Those are all good and helpful but one certainly cannot say that it is not cultural. Chinese parents are obsessed with number 1. If their neighbors' kids are outperforming theirs, they will drive that kid up against the wall day in and day out until he out-achieves them. He could be a phenomenal kid with high grades and excellent prospects but if his peers are higher achievers in a traditional academic sense, he's not going to hear the end of it until he beats them. (Little kids nag their parents for the best toys to show off to their friends and parents nag their kids for results to show off to their friends LOL. I had a kid live upstairs from me when I was growing up and I hated his effing guts even though we never spoke because my parents kept telling me how he was more obedient and had higher grades. I eventually "beat" him after we moved away cus I don't think he went to grad school, at least not at a PhD level and that's when I never heard my parents mention him again.) No matter how many resources you pour into erecting excellent academic institutions, there are still only going to be 10 in the top 10, and the fight to get into them is going to be as vicious as always. I have a feeling that this cultural obsession with competition is good in many ways for China's development, BUT only if paired with a non-corrupt educational system. When everyone makes their kids study on Saturday to get ahead, that's fine. But when everyone's competing on how expensive the gifts are that they can send to the teacher to curry favor for their little brat, that's a huge problem and that translates into financial strain making having more kids unaffordable.

MrCrazyBoyRavi · Jul 17, 2020

Its mind boggling, why isn't China making any alliances ? China's non alignment policy is isolating it day by day. Why can't it learn from Europeans and Americans that you need allies. If china don't make treaty allies now, then US and European will kick them out of Africa by economic or political means.

escobar · Jul 17, 2020

manqiangrexue said:
Although I agree that currently, the US is comprehensively still the more powerful of the two, China has far more upward momentum for growth. Basically, one person is still somewhat richer from decades of wealth accumulation but the other person has higher income.

China has upward momentum for growth but some people have a flawed logic that US will stagnate.

manqiangrexue said:
Anybody can sanction anyone. The question is whether or not the sanctions are effective. American sanctions are sometimes effective and sometimes no longer. But that sometimes, American sanctions are still useful, at least as a temporary hindrance, and that shows that this old tool is not yet completely broken for America.

Well, can we really say in Huawei case the sanction were not effective?

manqiangrexue said:
To have the US government put so much effort against a company like Huawei only to have Huawei continue to grow and expand by double digits is a terrible humiliation for a country that fancies itself the leader of the world. This shows erosion of American power.

Humiliation ? it's a matter of point of view. They are more than happy and Tiktok is the next target

manqiangrexue · Jul 17, 2020

escobar said:
China has upward momentum for growth but some people have a flawed logic that US will stagnate.

It's comparative. America is not in total stagnation, but moving much slower is a sort of stagnation. Plus, in several areas like tech development, America's newly revealed xenophobia and open racism can be very harmful to talent recruitment and America is heavily reliant on foreign talent in tech. Economically, stagnation is what the US wishes for but has no chance of achieving this year.

escobar said:
Well, can we really say in Huawei case the sanction were not effective?

Huawei has more 5G contracts than any other company, with the highest earnings and just reported an H1 growth of over 13%. I'd say that is so far ineffective. It would be even more so if the end result is that the push causes SMIC and SMEE to evolve into the new TSMC and ASML of China, which hasn't happened yet, but does look like it's going in that way.

escobar said:
Humiliation ? it's a matter of point of view. They are more than happy and Tiktok is the next target

They are more than happy with that result I mentioned above? OK, I guess they had really low expectations of themselves then. I don't see any indication of happiness from America on the Huawei saga.

What has happened with Tiktok? The biggest thing is that it's banned in India because they overstepped and China dealt it an ass-whooping so now India's in temper tantrum mode.

AndrewS · Jul 17, 2020

manqiangrexue said:
@AndrewS @ZeEa5KPul
Those are all good and helpful but one certainly cannot say that it is not cultural. Chinese parents are obsessed with number 1. If their neighbors' kids are outperforming theirs, they will drive that kid up against the wall day in and day out until he out-achieves them. He could be a phenomenal kid with high grades and excellent prospects but if his peers are higher achievers in a traditional academic sense, he's not going to hear the end of it until he beats them. (Little kids nag their parents for the best toys to show off to their friends and parents nag their kids for results to show off to their friends LOL. I had a kid live upstairs from me when I was growing up and I hated his effing guts even though we never spoke because my parents kept telling me how he was more obedient and had higher grades. I eventually "beat" him after we moved away cus I don't think he went to grad school, at least not at a PhD level and that's when I never heard my parents mention him again.) No matter how many resources you pour into erecting excellent academic institutions, there are still only going to be 10 in the top 10, and the fight to get into them is going to be as vicious as always. I have a feeling that this cultural obsession with competition is good in many ways for China's development, BUT only if paired with a non-corrupt educational system. When everyone makes their kids study on Saturday to get ahead, that's fine. But when everyone's competing on how expensive the gifts are that they can send to the teacher to curry favor for their little brat, that's a huge problem and that translates into financial strain making having more kids unaffordable.

But at the primary and secondary level, if you have high levels of excellence, the top xxx schools will spend a lot of time swopping rankings each year.

The reason being that the point differences between them would be minor, so random fluctuations cause their rankings to change every year.

MortyandRick · Jul 17, 2020

MrCrazyBoyRavi said:
Its mind boggling, why isn't China making any alliances ? China's non alignment policy is isolating it day by day. Why can't it learn from Europeans and Americans that you need allies. If china don't make treaty allies now, then US and European will kick them out of Africa by economic or political means.

I had the same thoughts for many years now. I think there are many considerations. Alliances need to put one agisnt the other and China feels that it's non alliance policy allows it to play both sides and gain benefit, ie Iran vs Israel vs Saudi Arabia. It's not strong enough to export it's ideology and mass media to successfully have alliances and to keep that alliance fruitful I feel. This policy definitely has its downsides. But China keeps her alliances to those countries that are strategic core interests such as North Korea since it's so close. If North Korea was further away, that alliance would be long gone. China doesn't even have an official alliance with Pakistan. China does not want to be dragged into issues by their alliances.

I would say the US and euros have good alliances they have mutual interests and US has vassel states IMO

manqiangrexue · Jul 17, 2020

AndrewS said:
But at the primary and secondary level, if you have high levels of excellence, the top xxx schools will spend a lot of time swopping rankings each year.

The reason being that the point differences between them would be minor, so random fluctuations cause their rankings to change every year.

That would be a very unique undertaking to make so many universities so close to each other that the ranking are truly scrambled yearly. You might have to have central governance of all universities and shift the important professors around to purposefully even things out when some schools start to lead or lag the pack in order to achieve what you want. I'm not a fan of that because that would mean that the country's best minds are mired in settling and resettling rather than dialed into their research in a comfortable and familiar environment. In today's actuality, in every major country that I know of, there is an elite group of schools and their rankings can move in relation to each other, but not by much and rarely do you see one fall from grace or ascend into the elite. I still see the end result as Chinese students vying for a small group of those elite schools, just like all over the world even if they aren't heads and shoulders superior to a lower tiered university. The reality is that anyone with the passion and talent for their field can succeed at any university. The fight to get into these spots is all about prestige, a trophy on the wall. We just have to make that competition rooted in education rather than corruption.

Wangxi · Jul 17, 2020

Team Biden’s Policies on China and Taiwan

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AndrewS · Jul 17, 2020

manqiangrexue said:
That would be a very unique undertaking to make so many universities so close to each other that the ranking are truly scrambled yearly. You might have to have central governance of all universities and shift the important professors around to purposefully even things out when some schools start to lead or lag the pack in order to achieve what you want. I'm not a fan of that because that would mean that the country's best minds are mired in settling and resettling rather than dialed into their research in a comfortable and familiar environment. In today's actuality, in every major country that I know of, there is an elite group of schools and their rankings can move in relation to each other, but not by much and rarely do you see one fall from grace or ascend into the elite. I still see the end result as Chinese students vying for a small group of those elite schools, just like all over the world even if they aren't heads and shoulders superior to a lower tiered university. The reality is that anyone with the passion and talent for their field can succeed at any university. The fight to get into these spots is all about prestige, a trophy on the wall. We just have to make that competition rooted in education rather than corruption.

I said primary and secondary education, which are local by nature.
So you can have a lot of local schools with similar standards and performance.

With regards to your question on tertiary university education in China, it's ok to see larger entrenched differences in universities because it's a lot easier to setup a meritocratic admissions system.

The (anonymous) admissions staff have much less contact with parents, which lessens opportunities for graft.

Personally, I think China needs to setup a new series of universities under central government or private control, because the existing universities favour local applicants too much in selection criteria.

Furthermore, it would make sense to locate the first of these new universities in the interior provinces, where costs are cheaper and which would also spur local catchup development. Education is a heavily labour-intensive process, where most of the money ends up as wages to be spent.

Anyway, back to the topic.

escobar · Jul 17, 2020

manqiangrexue said:
It's comparative. America is not in total stagnation, but moving much slower is a sort of stagnation. Plus, in several areas like tech development, America's newly revealed xenophobia and open racism can be very harmful to talent recruitment and America is heavily reliant on foreign talent in tech. Economically, stagnation is what the US wishes for but has no chance of achieving this year.

Even with all of that, US is still very resilient

manqiangrexue said:
Huawei has more 5G contracts than any other company, with the highest earnings and just reported an H1 growth of over 13%. I'd say that is so far ineffective. It would be even more so if the end result is that the push causes SMIC and SMEE to evolve into the new TSMC and ASML of China, which hasn't happened yet, but does look like it's going in that way.

They are more than happy with that result I mentioned above? OK, I guess they had really low expectations of themselves then. I don't see any indication of happiness from America on the Huawei saga.

What has happened with Tiktok? The biggest thing is that it's banned in India because they overstepped and China dealt it an ass-whooping so now India's in temper tantrum mode.

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China need a new geopolitical Doctrine ?

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