China need a new geopolitical Doctrine ?


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BMEWS

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Because in America's political system, popular belief has an impact on government policy. China would be in a much better shape if more Americans saw it as benign, rather than as a threat and adversary. The speed and comprehensiveness of the ongoing anti-China move in the US government is due to China having no friends in the US, when it easily could.

No, just the opposite, because actually the irony is that in a so-called democratic government where the government has to resort to false flags, propaganda, and other CIA-like techniques to drive political agenda whilst still maintain the illusion of freedom/ democracy for the populous, its in fact top down governmental policy that trickles down "Inception" style as common themes under the labels of "freedom, democracy, etc" to give the people the illusion of choice whilst on the backend its always been the power elite running the show... If anything, democratic governments have to be more deceptive to their population because they have to smooth out the cogitative dissonance whenever policy/interests don't align with purported values/propaganda. Do you think the average American knew anything about Huawei before Trump, at the direction of the Deep State (as he calls it) embarked on his campaign against Huawei and 5G? American people don't see China as benign because the American government, its intelligence agencies and the media arms of the government all take directives from above to start China bashing as its containment effort of an ascendant China, nothing less and no more. AT&T was about to strike a deal with Huawei to offer their handsets /smartphones before US gov stepped in at the last moment and put a stop to it. I suppose that was something the American people decided too at the grassroots level? No, its clear cut case of top down government intervention / state intervention against private corporate interests... and it most certainty wasn't something the American people were lobbying their government to pursue.

I'll be honest with you, I think either you are trolling or you are incredibly misguided and naive in the workings of geopolitics. Focus on lithography.
 
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gadgetcool5

Junior Member
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Unfortunately the liberal (here I mean classical enlightenment liberalism) idea of human rights and democracy is flawed and cannot deliver on its promise of liberty, equality, or fraternity. That is because the economic system of liberalism, capitalism, is based on depriving the population of the means to enjoy freedom by using private property law to keep land and productive machinery out of hands of the people. Marxism-Leninism is the only system that can actually bring about human rights and democracy.

You can have a social democratic system, which combines the best ideas of modern liberalism (human rights and democracy, with personal liberty) and economic socialism (a strong welfare state, universal health care, housing, education, minimum wage, etc.) Most countries that run on this system are very stable, such as Scandinavian countries, and to a lesser extent Japan/South Korea/Taiwan. They are not collapsing. There is a lot of scaremongering going on that is not necessary. China is not Russia. Ironically Mao Zedong understood this better than some people today. If Mao had tried to learn everything about China's direction from Russia, he would never have succeeded in the Long March or the Chinese revolution.
 

canniBUS

New Member
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No, just the opposite, because actually the irony is that in a so-called democratic government where the government has to resort to false flags, propaganda, and other CIA-like techniques to drive political agenda whilst still maintain the illusion of freedom/ democracy for the populous, its in fact top down governmental policy that trickles down "Inception" style as common themes under the labels of "freedom, democracy, etc" to give the people the illusion of choice whilst on the backend its always been the power elite running the show... Do you think the average American knew anything about Huawei before Trump, at the direction of the Deep State (as he calls it) embarked on his campaign against Huawei and 5G? American people don't see China as benign because the American government, its intelligence agencies and the media arms of the government all take directives from above. AT&T was about to strike a deal with Huawei to offer their handsets /smartphones before US gov stepped in at the last moment and put a stop to it. I suppose that was something the American people decided too?

I'll be honest with you, I think either you are trolling or you are incredibly misguided and naive in the workings of geopolitics.
The US political system is an oligarchy. There is no correlation between public opinion and the likelihood of a bill being passed by congress. However there is a strong correlation between elite opinion and the likelihood of a bill becoming law.
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You can have a social democratic system, which combines the best ideas of modern liberalism (human rights and democracy, with personal liberty) and economic socialism (a strong welfare state, universal health care, housing, education, minimum wage, etc.) Most countries that run on this system are very stable, such as Scandinavian countries, and to a lesser extent Japan/South Korea/Taiwan. They are not collapsing. There is a lot of scaremongering going on that is not necessary. China is not Russia. Ironically Mao Zedong understood this better than some people today. If Mao had tried to learn everything about China's direction from Russia, he would never have succeeded in the Long March or the Chinese revolution.
You have an elementary understanding of socialism, human rights and democracy. Welfare benefits are still capitalism because economic activity in those social democratic countries are still directed by profitability rather than rational planning, the means of production are primarily privately owned, and workers have no say on how the product of their labour is disposed. In short the M -> C -> M' circuit prevails in the economy, thus the system is capitalism. Further more European social democracy only existed due to imperialism and the threat of the USSR preventing the capitalist class from oppressing the working class to it's fullest extent. The USSR is gone now and the social democratic welfare programs are being dismantled all across Europe. Finally you should understand that capitalism is a temporary system, all the classical capitalist economists of the 18th and 19th centuries believed it to be. Only in the late 19th and early 20th century, after the system became entrenched, that a new breed of economists arose to act as priests to proselytize how capitalism is an eternal system transcending history and culture. Unfortunately for neo-classical apologists for capitalism, the rate of profit falls over time and that puts a clock on capitalism. We already see all of the degenerate "economic" activity that occurs in wall street since there is no profit to be made in actual productive investment into new factories, new machines, new production methods etc. Only financial strip-mining remains. Capitalism today is a cancer.

Personal liberty, or more generally, negative liberty, is a ridiculous concept. I'll let comrade Stalin's quote speak for me here.

I've already debunked the idea that the US political system is democracy above, it is an oligarchy. In fact, I expect the situation to be similar in all developed capitalist countries. There is a reason Marxists call it the dictatorship of capital. But I will add, elections and electoral systems are not democracy. Elections have always been the preferred method of oligarchy going back to ancient Greece. Democracy in contrast uses sortition, the random selection of political officers from the general population. If you know your science, you should know that random selection is the only scientific way to produce a representative sample from a population. The same applies to politics. So called "representative democracy" using elections is a farce, completely unrepresentative of the population, and favoring corrupt professional politicians who are better at talking that doing anything useful.
 

gadgetcool5

Junior Member
Registered Member
I actually live in America. I talk to Americans every day. You don't understand it.

Americans' attitude towards China isn't driven by the Deep State or the CIA. If anything, most Americans want an even tougher line on China than their government. I've seen many Americans say all tech companies should be banned from doing business with China, or that China should be cut off like North Korea and kicked out of the UN. Compared to that, the attitude of the Trump administration is moderate! What's driving these attitude is not the Deep State or the CIA. It's things like China's camps in Xinjiang and the National Security Law in Hong Kong. And China's constant fighting and disputes with all other countries. Also that China is blamed for coronavirus. Americans are fearful of China's more hardline direction. During the Hu Jintao era there was no problem.

Yes, America has oligarchial aspects, it has problems with it's political system. I'm not saying it's perfect. But there is a chance that Trump could be voted out this year and replaced by Biden. Could that happen in China? No. In America you can curse out the President, and say whatever you want against the President online without getting arrested. For minorities and the marginalized, America is often better. For example, if you are LGBT, you can get legally married in America but not China. You have a lot more rights than in China and politicians will pander to you if you belong to certain strategic voting areas.
 

BMEWS

Junior Member
Registered Member
I actually live in America. I talk to Americans every day. You don't understand it.

Americans' attitude towards China isn't driven by the Deep State or the CIA. If anything, most Americans want an even tougher line on China than their government. I've seen many Americans say all tech companies should be banned from doing business with China, or that China should be cut off like North Korea and kicked out of the UN. Compared to that, the attitude of the Trump administration is moderate! What's driving these attitude is not the Deep State or the CIA. It's things like China's camps in Xinjiang and the National Security Law in Hong Kong. And China's constant fighting and disputes with all other countries. Also that China is blamed for coronavirus. Americans are fearful of China's more hardline direction. During the Hu Jintao era there was no problem.

Yes, America has oligarchial aspects, it has problems with it's political system. I'm not saying it's perfect. But there is a chance that Trump could be voted out this year and replaced by Biden. Could that happen in China? No. In America you can curse out the President, and say whatever you want against the President online without getting arrested. For minorities and the marginalized, America is often better. For example, if you are LGBT, you can get legally married in America but not China. You have a lot more rights than in China and politicians will pander to you if you belong to certain strategic voting areas.

I don't speak for the other guy but I also live in America, I also work and talk with Americans everyday, and most of them are nice people. Some of them are racists but if they don't provoke them its never been much of an issue for me. I have noticed that where the closet racists come out in full force is when I go against norms and don't play the part of the good little Asian like they all expect me to... But don't conflate the issues, this has nothing to do with geopolitics.

You keep bringing up the issue of China not having "friends" and needing more "friendship" (as if that was the magic cure of it all) be it that of other nations or even befriending the American people... First of all "friendship" is a social construct, reductionist analytical overlay and label of an evolutionary adaption to certain survival strategies. See the difference between bonomo and chimpanzees.

But in geopolitics there are no friends, only interests... You should know that by now... Plus how exactly is China gonna make friends with the American people when the government itself is dead-set on provoking China, with the US Potus intentionally calling it the China Virus, the Sec of State calling China the Greatest Central Threat of our Times, and with other Trump admin/cabinet members openly calling for regime change in Beijing? If China tried making friends with the American people directly China would just get accused of intervening in US politics and it would never work anyway since there is no use in trying to affect American opinion using China media, any more than American government via VOA/NED/CIA has been able to turn the opinions of Chinese citizens against that of the Chinese government be it as they try...

"Friendship" serves hegemony, not the other way around. Don't forget that.
 
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canniBUS

New Member
Registered Member
Yes, America has oligarchial aspects, it has problems with it's political system. I'm not saying it's perfect. But there is a chance that Trump could be voted out this year and replaced by Biden. Could that happen in China? No. In America you can curse out the President, and say whatever you want against the President online without getting arrested. For minorities and the marginalized, America is often better. For example, if you are LGBT, you can get legally married in America but not China. You have a lot more rights than in China and politicians will pander to you if you belong to certain strategic voting areas.
The US political system does not have problems, you mistakenly assume that the US political system exists to serve the people. Perhaps you have confused it with the Chinese political system. The US political system exists to serve the 0.1% wealthiest segment of the population and it is functioning perfectly. It's laughable that you think a presidential election between Trump and Biden is meaningful in any way. I somehow doubt you would applaud China as a democracy if the CPC split into the Chinese Social Democratic Labour Party and the Chinese Worker's Party and the two parties endlessly bickered over whether people with penises should be allowed to use women's restrooms while pursuing identical economic and foreign policies. Yet, when this meaningless bickering happens in the US, you take that as a sign of "democracy". I'll leave it to the other forum goers to rip apart your absurd assertion that being a minority is better in the US.
 

BMEWS

Junior Member
Registered Member
Just as an hypothetical thought exercise, what countries do you consider to be America's "friends" currently?
Is Germany a "friend" of the US?

If yes, doesn't that mean the US should treat its friends with respect, be kind and nice to its friends, and come to the aids of its friends and help its friends out? Then why is the US deadset on preventing Germany from exercising its own sovereign decision of choosing which energy provider it wants (NordStream 2)? How is this friendly behavior? I thought American public have a friendly view of Germans? What happened?

See the issue when you try to over-simplify the world and cast it in terms of friendship and making friends?
 

KYli

Major
I actually live in America. I talk to Americans every day. You don't understand it.

Americans' attitude towards China isn't driven by the Deep State or the CIA. If anything, most Americans want an even tougher line on China than their government. I've seen many Americans say all tech companies should be banned from doing business with China, or that China should be cut off like North Korea and kicked out of the UN. Compared to that, the attitude of the Trump administration is moderate! What's driving these attitude is not the Deep State or the CIA. It's things like China's camps in Xinjiang and the National Security Law in Hong Kong. And China's constant fighting and disputes with all other countries. Also that China is blamed for coronavirus. Americans are fearful of China's more hardline direction. During the Hu Jintao era there was no problem.

What's driving these attitude is Deep State and the CIA. It has little to do with anything else. When commies and evil Chinese were implanted for decades and lies that repeating thousands times, there are just no need to incite hatred towards China. Most Americans were taught to view China as an evil country and aggressor in their instinct. However, China was weak a few decades ago so Americans didn't care much about China. However, the attitude is the same and has not changed.

Tibet, dog eaters, babies eaters, communists, commies, chink, 6/4, Mao is the most brutal dictator, slave labors, environmental polluters, babies killers etc. These are the words from elementary school and junior high kids and teenagers. It is a joke that you dare to claim there is no problem during the Hu Jintao era.
 

hullopilllw

Junior Member
Registered Member
America evil this, America evil that.

No, America does not want China to become more democratic because it would be "easier for CIA influence/ coups/etc" or that it would be "like the Japanese during the 80's and the Plaza Accord." Believe it or not, many Americans truly believe in the ideals of human rights and democracy and there is nothing wrong with that. In fact even if Americans did not believe in human rights, it is still the right thing to do, the Chinese people should have the right to freedom of speech and civil society without the government saying no.

Cant quite hear you with the all the white sausages' stuffed in your mouth.

20180122_Government_Trump.jpg
 
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