China and India relationship


voyager1

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Looks like China and India are trying to reconcile as India finally realise it needs China assistance to revive its ailing economy.
The Indians are probably feeling that there is no much gain in being puppet of the Anglo sphere. And CPC made the right call in not humiliating the Indians in last years border clash.


Wishful thinking but there is some truth in the video. India wants to to reengage with China so that it can grow its economy and it also wants to get closer to grow its military (and get economy as well) so India is very well positioned to get very close to US and get benefits. But it will also leave a tiny opening for China so that it can milk it too. Basically is the same cold war US-China vs USSR dynamic

Now China should avoid helping or do everything possible to keep India down as they have shown multiple times that they will stab you in the back if given the chance (e.g during covid, India intruded into the border)
IMO China should seriously start aiding Pakistan to counter India.
 

Petrolicious88

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Looks like China and India are trying to reconcile as India finally realise it needs China assistance to revive its ailing economy.
The Indians are probably feeling that there is no much gain in being puppet of the Anglo sphere. And CPC made the right call in not humiliating the Indians in last years border clash.



I hope this "India and China are friends" message is just some propaganda for external audience. India has no desire to be true friends with China. India is buying time because it needs china's help to build up Indian manufacturing industry.
 

KenC

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The Anglo sphere is also no true friend of India and Indians know that too. And if China and India can further engage, more Indians will realize the benefit of further economic ties with China outweigh confrontation.
 

LawLeadsToPeace

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The Anglo sphere is also no true friend of India and Indians know that too. And if China and India can further engage, more Indians will realize the benefit of further economic ties with China outweigh confrontation.
Disagree. China and India have been in contact with each other for a while, and China largely invested in India (ex: Alibaba and Xiaomi). Despite these gestures of goodwill, India harbors a hatred and arrogance towards China and uses the Chinese's naivety to make money off of them. As long as China doesn't repay India's acts of aggression by severely damaging India's economy, the Indians will never "realize the benefit of further economic ties with China outweigh confrontation".
 

KenC

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Disagree. China and India have been in contact with each other for a while, and China largely invested in India (ex: Alibaba and Xiaomi). Despite these gestures of goodwill, India harbors a hatred and arrogance towards China and uses the Chinese's naivety to make money off of them. As long as China doesn't repay India's acts of aggression by severely damaging India's economy, the Indians will never "realize the benefit of further economic ties with China outweigh confrontation".

I don't think India is a monolithic block made up of China haters. There are the communists, socialists , pro-peasants Maoists as well as the Industrialists, Western leaning intellectuals and nationalists. Each one has a different agenda but all of them want economic growth. Certain elites may say something to earn brownie points from the West, but the fact is that they need to engage economically with China more than ever as can be seen by the substantial increase in trade between the two nations.
 

crash8pilot

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As a retired-PLA general (金一南) once said, India thinks China is like Mike Tyson and therefore sees Tyson as it's enemy/target... Except Tyson doesn't think you're not even qualified to be his enemy. Tyson will definitely fight back if you provoked him, but quite frankly he doesn't stand to gain anything going a few rounds in the ring knocking out some wannabe heavyweight boxer (who really doesn't weight anywhere near the heavyweight class in the first place).

Talk is cheap - Modi and his Administration doesn't have the political capital to say no to the US and it's coerced Quad allies. Beijing has taught India a lesson, and despite how messy the border skirmish unfolded last year has given Modi a somewhat graceful way to "exit stage left" (what we Chinese say 给个下台阶, which means once you've proved someone wrong you don't rub it in their face in hopes that both parties have a chance of moving forward cordially and without ill will). We can't expect the Indians to do an immediate 180 on the diplomatic front by turning down Biden and get into bed with us - it'd be a massive loss of face, and the government would lose credibility and political points with his support base amidst a messy domestic front.

China stands to gain more working with India than it does crushing it. I'm not saying it'll be easy but as long as India and China keeps a dialogue going, we can hopefully turn that dialogue into substantial action that will benefit not just Sino-Indian relations, but more importantly to the region.
 
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j17wang

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As a retired-PLA general (金一南) once said, India thinks China is like Mike Tyson and therefore sees Tyson as it's enemy/target... Except Tyson doesn't think you're not even qualified to be his enemy. Tyson will definitely fight back if you provoked him, but quite frankly he doesn't stand to gain anything going a few rounds in the ring knocking out some wannabe heavyweight boxer (who really doesn't weight anywhere near the heavyweight class in the first place).

Talk is cheap - Modi and his Administration doesn't have the political capital to say no to the US and it's coerced Quad allies. Beijing has taught India a lesson, and despite how messy the border skirmish unfolded last year has given Modi a somewhat graceful way to "exit stage left" (what we Chinese say 给个下台阶, which means once you've proved someone wrong you don't rub it in their face in hopes that both parties have a chance of moving forward cordially and without ill will). We can't expect the Indians to do an immediate 180 on the diplomatic front by turning down Biden and get into bed with us - it'd be a massive loss of face, and the government would lose credibility and political points with his support base amidst a messy domestic front.

China stands to gain more working with India than it does crushing it. I'm not saying it'll be easy but as long as India and China keeps a dialogue going, we can hopefully turn that dialogue into substantial action that will benefit not just Sino-Indian relations, but more importantly to the region.

China can help India along with areas like building infrastructure (subways, rail, port) but be more resistant to helping in quantum computing, 5G, AI. The indian domestic market is still a profitable and attractive one that china should not just lose out to.

A counter-intuitive strategy may be to help build out indian hard assets, such as coal plants, steel mills while promoting ties with the BJP. The west actually fears india developing hard power (nobody cares about the IT outsourcing which could be switched off in an instance). Just remember the west doesn't actually like India, its more just a fetish like orientalism. The faster India develops, it will also put itself into conflict against western powers as it vies for ascendancy.

While largely independent of the chinese narrative, western media has begun unusual attacking of India in the past few months (whether it be farmers protests, civil unrest, new hit pieces about slave labour. Indian nationalists (usually pro-BJP) have also started hitting back. Perhaps there is an accommodation that can be made with India. China doesn't need India to be pro-china in even the slightest sense. Just guarded neutrality is more than sufficient for china's security.
 

hashtagpls

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China stands to gain more working with India than it does crushing it. I'm not saying it'll be easy but as long as India and China keeps a dialogue going, we can hopefully turn that dialogue into substantial action that will benefit not just Sino-Indian relations, but more importantly to the region.
I take the view that China has much more to gain with a divided and weakened India much as the Anglo US benefits from a divided and weak, cartel ridden Mexico and latin america.

Indian mouthpieces believe they can prosper at China's expense. They should be disabused of this notion.
 

LawLeadsToPeace

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I don't think India is a monolithic block made up of China haters. There are the communists, socialists , pro-peasants Maoists as well as the Industrialists, Western leaning intellectuals and nationalists. Each one has a different agenda but all of them want economic growth. Certain elites may say something to earn brownie points from the West, but the fact is that they need to engage economically with China more than ever as can be seen by the substantial increase in trade between the two nations.
According to this link,
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, in 2019, 46% of responders in India have a negative view towards China. Now, lets fast forward it to 2021. India just experienced the Ladakh Border Crisis, which is hyped up to insane levels in India, and is going through the Covid 19 pandemic, in which many nations blame its spread on China. If you use a bit of inference, do you really think the mass majority of Indians don't have a hatred towards China? As for your claim in regards to the "monolithic block", the US also has a diverse group of political groups. It has socialists, ultra-right wingers, centrists, libertarians, almost every racial group on this planet, leftists, and conservatives, yet this occurred:
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. Finally, for your claim of economic growth being the desire of the Indians, EVERYONE wants economic growth. Economic growth leads to a better standard of living. Not only do people want economic growth, they also want their egos inflated. That is the nature of humans. If the Indians can have economic growth while simultaneously beating their war drums to create trouble for China and satisfy their egos, they'll do it, and they did do it. Economic growth doesn't do anything to solve issues like that of the Chinese-Indian relationship. Only actions do. Forcing the Indians to realize that their economic growth is dependent on China and that it cannot coexist with hatred and arrogance towards China will make them much much more cool headed, thereby stabilizing the region.
 

crash8pilot

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I take the view that China has much more to gain with a divided and weakened India much as the Anglo US benefits from a divided and weak, cartel ridden Mexico and latin america.

Indian mouthpieces believe they can prosper at China's expense. They should be disabused of this notion.
America carved up and crippled South America due to it's imperialistic and hegemonic nature - both those concepts are contrary to the Marxist-Leninism socialist ideology on which the CCP operates on. We don't believe in crushing nations and civilizations. Period. Even when the PLA captured Indian soldiers after the skirmish, we treated them with decency and respect before handing them back to India unharmed once the dust was settled.

Beijing harbors no desires for global dominance, it is completely possible to be a global leader and become a sphere of influence without domination. Beijing only seeks to improve the lives of Chinese people, and to idealistically use what it produces in excess to benefit the Asia-Pacific neighbors to win over influence in the region. Beijing don't have to weaken or dominate their neighbors to win over respect. Outside of the 1962 war with India and the 1979 war with Vietnam, China has managed to rise as a global superpower through peaceful and diplomatic means - alas the CCP present an alternative form of governance and leadership as compared to the endless wars and dominance the Anglo-sphere presents.
 
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