Can Kill J-20 & T-50, Says Eurofighter

plawolf

plawolf

Lieutenant General
MiG-29 said:
Detecting range is relative, it all depends in power density, the power density of a jet like Su-35S in 1960 could be considered as a very power AWACS of 1970.
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Su35s in 1960s? What are you smoking?

The IRST system of today is 3-4 times better in range than a 1960s IRST,
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Still nowhere near the range needed to compete with the radar detection range a stealth fighter would enjoy against a non-stealth fighter.

What more, the environmental limitations on IRST makes them unreliable at best.

the F-22 was designed in mind with a radar power density of 1980s-1990s, because those were the radar systems available at that time.
by 2020 i am sure the radars available will render stealth obsolete.
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Baseless claims.

Now the vast majority of modern fighters have a very small frontal radar cross section.
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Still an order of magnitude that of true stealth fighters.

Eurofighter is not stealthy lateraly or from the lower or aft part of its fuselage but frontally is really stealthy and the reason is a very pointed nose and a highly swept wing have a low RCS.
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That is the most ridiculous description of how to achieve low RCS I have ever had the misfortune of reading.

it has also RAM coating so frontally is as stealthy as F-22.
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Absolute nonsense. Not even the most rabid Eurofighter fanboy would suggest that the Typhoon has the same frontal RCS as a Raptor.

On a head to head the main advantage of a stealth fighter is its ability to carry weapons internally but this is slightly offset by the fact a bigger area gives a bigger RCS, thus the larger frontal cross section of a F-22 or J-20 do not favoured them against the smaller Eurofighter with semi recessed Meteors.
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Absolute nonsense.

I hope you realize you cannot just make crap up in your head and present them as facts, because that is all you have been doing and it is just painful to read.
 
MiG-29

MiG-29

Banned Idiot
plawolf said:
Su35s in 1960s? What are you smoking?



Still nowhere near the range needed to compete with the radar detection range a stealth fighter would enjoy against a non-stealth fighter.

What more, the environmental limitations on IRST makes them unreliable at best.



Baseless claims.



Still an order of magnitude that of true stealth fighters.



That is the most ridiculous description of how to achieve low RCS I have ever had the misfortune of reading.



Absolute nonsense. Not even the most rabid Eurofighter fanboy would suggest that the Typhoon has the same frontal RCS as a Raptor.



Absolute nonsense.

I hope you realize you cannot just make crap up in your head and present them as facts, because that is all you have been doing and it is just painful to read.
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i have not made any senseless claim, what happens is you are not applying history.

Do you know the radar range of a Mirage III in 1962? now tell me what was the IRST range of a F-4 in 1964?
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now tell me the radar detecting range of the EC-121 Warning Star that was operated by the US in Vietnam
[video=youtube;AWPyH97eOoI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWPyH97eOoI[/video]
The RC-121C originally had the APS-20 and APS-45 radar's on board. Then in about 1962 the APS-20 (search radar) was replaced with the APS-95 radar. It had a range of 250 miles, operated at 405 MHz to 450 MHZ with three Meg-watts peak-power out. The APS-45 (Height finder) had a range of 120 miles. Also, in about 1962 the 551 AEW converted the D model to the EC-121H.
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and compare
[video=youtube;wmNkm45gTco]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmNkm45gTco[/video]
[video=youtube;p8C06dHhlXc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8C06dHhlXc[/video]
The radar detecting range of a Su-35S in 2011 is superior to the detecting range of of the EC-121 in 1962 and equal to it in 1968, so by 1960s standards the Su-35 has AWACS capability and a group of 4 Su-35S are far superior to a E-2A or an EWC-121.


Reflection is the abrupt change in the direction of propagation of a wave that strikes the boundary between two different media. At least some part of the incoming wave remains in the same medium. If an incoming light ray makes an angle qi with the normal of a plane tangent to the boundary, then the reflected ray makes an angle qr with this normal and lies in the same plane as the incident ray and the normal
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this means a flat surface in front of a radar has a larger RCS than tilting the same flat surface or giving it a different angle of incidence.

Cones or pyramides have viewed from top a small RCS the YF-22 radome is a pyramid viewed from top.

A pyramid viewed from top has a based of 4 sides so it mainly concentrates the reflection in 4 sectors, while a cone by being a circular based form has lower RCS but it has more than 4 angular sectors of reflection.[video=youtube;NtuSpkin3Pc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtuSpkin3Pc&feature=BFa&list=PL74F9AFE683EC8D8B&lf=mh_lolz[/video]
 
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MiG-29

MiG-29

Banned Idiot
Skywatcher said:
All right, then so Mach 1.5 to Mach 1.8 (your figure is wrong there), that's a difference of 20%. Now mathematics might be a little thing, but that is a pretty big difference.

And what's the service ceiling for the F-22A, genius (hint, it required a completely new onboard oxygen supply from previous American models)?

Of course, the J-20 would be limited to only Mach 2, if it was using only DSI.
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for a meteor versus a PL-12 or AIM-120D is no problem, all these missiles are mach 4 or 5
 
MiG-29

MiG-29

Banned Idiot
Skywatcher said:
You are aware that higher altitude and speed of the fighter results in a greater no escape zone for the BVRAAM?
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A F-16 was able to down MiG-25, why a Eurofighter won`t down a F-22 if it manage to detect it?

Meteor is currently the most asdvanced missile in preproduction stage
[video=youtube;DiinNwfNi1w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiinNwfNi1w&feature=related[/video]
 
S

Skywatcher

Captain
That Iraqi MiG-25 in question had only the obsolete R-40R AAM, if it was even armed with a working BVRAAM at all. And the F-16 in question had AWACS support, and ECM.

And what was the altitude and speed of the Iraqi MiG-25 during that engagement?

You don't seriously think that any possible superiority the Meteor would have over the PL-21 and whatever AMRAAM evolution in the future would be as overwhelming as the AMRAAM-A over theR-40R, do you?
 
H

HKSDU

Junior Member
Reading from some of your posts, it basically reads why build 5th generation fighters when 4-4.5th generation can take them out. And a 5th generation with its stealth compromised it is no match.

Alot of you think stealth means invisible, but that is just a misconception that hollywood and media has made it to be. Stealth is just low RCS it makes it harder to spot not impossible to spot. There will always be a "shield and sword". Even if stealth is compromise doesn't mean its rendered useless, it is highly formidable, stealth is just one classification of a 5th genereation fighter.
What's the point in creating sword when a shield can counter it?

A fighter can challenge another fighter on equal capabilities, but to beat it you need the capabilities to change in you favour. Just cause Eurofighter can take down a 5th generation fighter doesn't mean every nation can, not all are equipped with Eurofighter.

Just a little possibilities it sounds also like a marketing plot. Why buy or build expensive 5th generation fighters when our 4th generation fighter can take it down. Let me ask them this for that one 5th generation that you destroyed how many of yours was taken out before it was downed? Why would the Americans, Russians and Chinese go to all these efforts. Especially the Russians and Chinese going through endless ways of detecting and countering the F-22. Just sounds like incompetence of them to build a 5th generation fighter, so they make it sound like 5th generation fighters are pointless and is nothing without their stealth.

Absurd for some of you to think that a fighter can outrun a AAM, to evade a AAM is either make it burn out its fuel or decoys.

Why build 4th generation fighters when a 3rd generation fighter can take down a 4th? 5th generation doesn't equal invincible, taking down a single 5th doesn't mean 4th is superior or makes 5th useless.
 
MiG-29

MiG-29

Banned Idiot
Skywatcher said:
That Iraqi MiG-25 in question had only the obsolete R-40R AAM, if it was even armed with a working BVRAAM at all. And the F-16 in question had AWACS support, and ECM.

And what was the altitude and speed of the Iraqi MiG-25 during that engagement?

You don't seriously think that any possible superiority the Meteor would have over the PL-21 and whatever AMRAAM evolution in the future would be as overwhelming as the AMRAAM-A over theR-40R, do you?
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The answer is simple, a Eurofighter can take down a faster moving target like a Mach 2 F-16 downed a Mach 2.8 fighter.

The Video i posted shows the acceleration of the meteor is quiet high even to the degree if fired at subsonic speeds hit the target moving into supersonic speeds.

For the Russians, americans and chinese they will need to field a missile as capable as Meteor soon after it enters service.

Eurofighter if it is fitted with a E captor able to detect and track a F-22 at a decent range, it will be able to fight stealth aircraft.
 
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MiG-29

MiG-29

Banned Idiot
HKSDU said:
Reading from some of your posts, it basically reads why build 5th generation fighters when 4-4.5th generation can take them out. And a 5th generation with its stealth compromised it is no match.

Alot of you think stealth means invisible, but that is just a misconception that hollywood and media has made it to be. Stealth is just low RCS it makes it harder to spot not impossible to spot. There will always be a "shield and sword". Even if stealth is compromise doesn't mean its rendered useless, it is highly formidable, stealth is just one classification of a 5th genereation fighter.
What's the point in creating sword when a shield can counter it?

A fighter can challenge another fighter on equal capabilities, but to beat it you need the capabilities to change in you favour. Just cause Eurofighter can take down a 5th generation fighter doesn't mean every nation can, not all are equipped with Eurofighter.

Just a little possibilities it sounds also like a marketing plot. Why buy or build expensive 5th generation fighters when our 4th generation fighter can take it down. Let me ask them this for that one 5th generation that you destroyed how many of yours was taken out before it was downed? Why would the Americans, Russians and Chinese go to all these efforts. Especially the Russians and Chinese going through endless ways of detecting and countering the F-22. Just sounds like incompetence of them to build a 5th generation fighter, so they make it sound like 5th generation fighters are pointless and is nothing without their stealth.

Absurd for some of you to think that a fighter can outrun a AAM, to evade a AAM is either make it burn out its fuel or decoys.

Why build 4th generation fighters when a 3rd generation fighter can take down a 4th? 5th generation doesn't equal invincible, taking down a single 5th doesn't mean 4th is superior or makes 5th useless.
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I do not think Eurofighter abilities means there is no need for stealth aircraft, but the Eurofighter can be manufacture in larger numbers than F-22.

The F-35 in many aspects is not a F-22, it lacks thrust vectoring for combat, supercruise and is not as agile as the F-22 and has been critized as lumbering compared to Rafale.

A future Eurofighter tranche with thrust vectoring and higher supercruise very likely could beat the F-35 in a kill rate to make the F-35 highly expensive and not as effective.

So if 5th generation fighters are slightly more capable, Eurofighter and Su-35 with better avionics and better kinematics can achieve similar combat effectiveness at lower prices
due to lower maintainance and operating costs.
 
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S

Skywatcher

Captain
MiG-29 said:
The answer is simple, a Eurofighter can take down a faster moving target like a Mach 2 F-16 downed a Mach 2.8 fighter.

The Video i posted shows the acceleration of the meteor is quiet high even to the degree if fired at subsonic speeds hit the target moving into supersonic speeds.

For the Russians, americans and chinese they will need to field a missile as capable as Meteor soon after it enters service.

Eurofighter if it is fitted with a E captor able to detect and track a F-22 at a decent range, it will be able to fight stealth aircraft.
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Of course a Eurofighter can shoot down a F-22A. The question is over the cost ratio (after all, if you had a thousand MiG-21s and one F-22A, the MiGs would eventually win).

And you still haven't provided data on the Iraqi MiG-25 vs. the F-16 fight. For all we know the MiG-25 was going at Mach 1.5.

Here's the thing about your little Eurofighter vs F-22 fantasy: ok, so maybe the Eurofighter can pick up the F-22A at 40-80km, assuming that the E Captor can burn through jamming and such. The problem for Typhoon is that the F-22A will have already picked up the Eurofighter well outside of any possible E Captor detection range of the F-22A, and thus gets to fire its AMRAAM first. A F-22 probably won't be able to outrun a Meteor at a certain range, the Eurofighter certainly won't be able to outrun an AIM-120 AMRAAM instead the no escape zone. So the F-22A shoots first. Guess who would come out ahead in the majority of such engagements?
 
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