2019 National Day Military Parade

Tirdent said:

Agree, the lack of surface details points to a mock-up. While that's perhaps a bit disappointing considering the WZ-8s are apparently real and how long Sharp Sword has been in the works, it's not unusual in a parade and does re-affirm for even the most jaded sceptics that the nozzle will eventually be LO. The nose wheels were tiny on the real prototype as well - have to be to fit inside the shallow nose!



That's big leap in thermal protection requirements (higher temperature due to higher speed *and* longer exposure due to longer flight time), ask the Russians with Avangard.

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Avangard is meant to be HGV ie unpropelled as well? China probably has HGV warheads in service on long range ICBMs perhaps even JL-3. Since we have never even seen a mockup of Avangard, why do we assume it is ready and assume China needs help getting HGVs on other delivery systems? By the evidence available, it would appear that China is well ahead of Russia in terms of hypersonics. Look at what we know within reason:

China has more and better hypersonic wind tunnels and supercomputers.
China has been claimed by the US to have conducted several successful hypersonic maneuvering tests for longer than Russia has.
China has shown what appears to be an actual HGV on DF-17.
One Chinese university has successfully conducted a hypersonic research test exploring double waveriding.

The other claims are rich on all sides and equally dubious. I mean we've heard leaks about claims of new scramjets and new breakthroughs from China on hypersonic works for ages and almost on a biannual basis. Russia had a few animations. Of course I've no doubt Russian hypersonic projects exist. There have been plenty of "UFO" spiral observations in Russia and China regions for a long time now... even one off California a few years ago, no doubt Chinese, US, or Russian in origin.

localizer said:

Can someone link a source for the WZ-8 having participated in missions?

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You can find this beaneth the photo of WZ-8:
由轰-6投掷，自主回收的火箭动力超声速无人侦察机，该机曾执行过“福X-201X”、“东X-201X”等重大任务，对敌占岛屿情况进行了情报详查，表现出色，受到上级领导的高度赞扬

"福" is an abbr of Fujian, the province at west side of the Taiwan Strait.
"敌占岛屿" means "the island under enemy occupation", a specially designated nickname for Taiwan among Chinese military amateurs.

So, it mentioned the codenames of "two important recon missions with outstanding performance and highly praised by high commanders", plus all clues are pointing to Taiwan.

a big collection of pictures, videos in the blog post

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(its title indicates there's more pictures, videos coming)

amazing
Le défilé du 1er Octobre à Pékin, vu par l’un des satellites de la constellation commerciale chinoise Gaojing-1 (高景一号).

China has had HGVs years before Russia, and has significant numbers of them in service right now as shown yesterday, while Russia has yet to show any serially produced system.

If I’m not wrong, the Zircon works on the same principles as China’s export CM-401, both missiles are not HGVs but irregular trajectory anti ship semi-ballistic missiles.

In contrast, the Avangard is a true HGV, but we have not seen anything of it, not even how it looks.

If the DF-17 came long before the Avangard, how could it be based on it? That would be like saying F-35 is based on J-31.

Of course, the fact that Avangard and Zircon are similar to earlier made DF-17 and CM-401 doesn’t mean that those systems were made with Chinese help either. They could be independently developed.

Given the close military relationship, past Russian favors to China and China’s interest in making sure Russia can defend itself against NATO, it’s not unlikely that the Russians could have obtained help to rapidly develop hypersonic weapons.

Biscuits said:

If I’m not wrong, the Zircon works on the same principles as China’s export CM-401, both missiles are not HGVs but irregular trajectory anti ship semi-ballistic missiles.

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3M22 Zircon is neither of those. Its a hypersonic cruise missile. After the boost phase, it employs a Scramjet engine to maintain its course on higher altitudes. I dont believe Russians ever claimed it as a HGV. AFAIK, currently, China has no exact analogue for Zircon but alternatives in somewhat alternatives are present.

Biscuits said:

If the DF-17 came long before the Avangard, how could it be based on it? That would be like saying F-35 is based on J-31.

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That kind of a claim wouldnt be valid either way. Avangard or should I say, Yu-71 & Yu-74, both are distinctively larger than DF-17's GV. The program goes way back, just like American and Chinese programs and I believe neither of those are directly related with one another. Avangard is an ICBM based approach which makes it relatively expensive than a MRBM version, which was not an option for Russia due to INF limitations. Supposedly, Avangard title includes 2 HGV designs, one is propelled with a scramjet, the other in traditional glider form. Too many unknowns are present at this time.

A small addition

Kinjal/Kinzhal (Kh-47M2) is an air-launched quasi-ballistic missile, similar to CM-401 in end-role, an ASBM. Its an adaptation of famous 9M723 Iskander missile to be launched through MiG-31 high-altitude interceptors. Maybe, you mixed Kinjal and Zircon up, I don't know.

And don't mind the sorry state of my typing. For the first time, I'm writing here on a mobile phone and obviously, I'm not good at it as I have missed a dozen typos earlier...

azretonov said:

A small addition

Kinjal/Kinzhal (Kh-47M2) is an air-launched quasi-ballistic missile, similar to CM-401 in end-role, an ASBM. Its an adaptation of famous 9M723 Iskander missile to be launched through MiG-31 high-altitude interceptors. Maybe, you mixed Kinjal and Zircon up, I don't know.

And don't mind the sorry state of my typing. For the first time, I'm writing here on a mobile phone and obviously, I'm not good at it as I have missed a dozen typos earlier...

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Yeah I thought Zircon was the official name for Kinzhal (since an air defense missile is already named kinzhal).

Kinzhal is an air launched ballistic missile essentially. Target types can vary and range is excellent. There are plenty of hypersonic flying missiles and warheads. Hypersonic glide is a different beast and hypersonic air breathing/ rocket propelled is another matter again. Kinzhal is more like those CM-401 but Avangard and Zircon seem to be hypersonic glide if I recall. Avangard being the conceptual future replacement for conventional MIRV delivery of warheads and for ICBMs and SLBMs. Zircon seems to be able to target ships and smaller, agile targets sitting on the surface similar to DF-17 which according to some Chinese commentators is really for striking bases and ships. Scramjets I recall are not great for hypersonic propulsion and may restrict it to speeds around mach 5 but alternative methods may have been available without our knowledge.

We have yet to see the propelled hypersonics but it is likely both Russia and China are working on/deploying them in a hurry along with the US. Nobody is copying anyone's technology in this field. Spying for knowledge exists but probably learning about how to counter these are more important. Those US fanboys are talking about how China's copying those obsolete crap that Iran captured. Sure China's studying them but more to gather intelligence about what they are capable of and how they can be countered as opposed to reverse engineering... please these idiots love to wank themselves off. Hypersonics is a similar story.

These high altitude high supersonic/ hypersonic cruise missiles which are allegedly scramjet powered also seem novel. Since China's shown DF-17 HGV as an IRBM, it's not that unlikely they already have ICBM and SLBM equivalents. All the Chinese tests have been for long flight duration, maneuverable and controllable despite Indian media and internet fanboy claims they are out of control. Chinese state issued claims talk about new achievements and breakthroughs while the Americans correlate and confirm these suspicions from their media and defense white papers.

Is there a video of the parade online with *official* commentary in English, anywhere?

edit: found it. if only i knew how to delete this post...