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MwRYum

Major
What Russia wouldn’t give to have fleet like this they could sail to Syria right about now.
As much as this Fleet Review is just a snapshot of today's PLAN, it has to be noted that today's Russian Navy own major surface combatants are all Soviet-era ships, while the PLAN are markedly modern, large tonnage with firepower to boot has finally becoming a norm (the 055 Class DDG, which the USN is tempted to classify is as CG), plus their CV Admiral Kuznetsov isn't known for being in good shape, and Liaoning was said to have clocked more time at sea than her big sis...

Having a navy with nice ships is nothing when you can't put them to sea regularly, or keep the hardware and software relevant. Fortunately, China don't have to look far in their own history for reminders...

Yeah, Russia does have reasons to be envy...
 

by78

General
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Iron Man

Major
Registered Member
The hump surface looks pretty smooth to me. Again, there looks to be barely enough room for a single pair of VL cells side by side. I think it's delusional at this point to hope and pray that the hump represents any kind of VLS.
 

weig2000

Captain
One of the most misunderstood or misinterpreted of Deng's quotes. He didn't mean that China should stay in the shadows forever, but that it should only assert power when it has the capabilities to do so. Given the level of industrial capability China is now exhibiting and the state of China's military capabilities, it's doubtful he would be finding much to protest with the more assertive posture of the past few years.

Also severely out of context. Deng gave the statement at around the time the former Soviet Union was collapsing, the Eastern European countries were revolting against communist rules and China was under Western embargo after Tienanmen Incident. It was meant to advise CCP and Chinese government not stick out its neck in the international arena to fight against the headwind that were prevalent at the time. This statement has since been quoted and misquoted by so many to mean whatever he or she wants to.

Other similar misquotes:

"China spends more on domestic stability than on national defense" - Original source or attribution unknown, but supposedly to imply that CCP's or Chinese government's rule is on very shaky grounds. Hell, as much as the US spends on defense, they are dwarfed by the amount the US spends on entitlements plus domestic security, whose purpose, apparently, is to pacify the mob and maintain social "stability."

"China is a big country, other countries are small ones. That's a fact." - former Foreign Minister Jiechi Yang, supposedly made the statement during a closed-door meeting with ASEAN foreign ministers and then Secretary of State Hilary Clinton on South China Sea and other regional affairs in 2010. Often quoted by media to show the Chinese bully, especially to its small neighboring nations. That China's top diplomat made such an uncharacteristically undiplomatic statement is never in doubt. Why should it be?
 

subotai1

Junior Member
Registered Member
The hump surface looks pretty smooth to me. Again, there looks to be barely enough room for a single pair of VL cells side by side. I think it's delusional at this point to hope and pray that the hump represents any kind of VLS.

Actually the pictures from 2016 ,when this was in development, show something is there. Speculation then was it was a VLS. That is now either gone, or more hidden by hull shape or anechoic tiles. Admittedly, we don't have proof yet, of what is in that spot.
 

Hyperwarp

Captain
The hump surface looks pretty smooth to me. Again, there looks to be barely enough room for a single pair of VL cells side by side. I think it's delusional at this point to hope and pray that the hump represents any kind of VLS.

The old Los Angeles class does not require any hump for its VLS (*granted the VLS locations are different). But the front of the LA class probably has less room than behind the sail. I don't think the 093B is much smaller than the Los Angeles class. In fact, the original 093 (at least according to wiki) is comparabe or maybe even a bit bigger than the Los Angeles class. 093B is IIRC longer than the original 093B. So why would it be delusional?

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0kcon20w8ihz.jpg
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Though not as long, minus the length of the ballistic missiles, the shape of the sail on the 093B looks similar to the 032. Particularly at the round off on the top corner and the web at the base, and then the way it tapers in the back.


type032.jpg
 
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Iron Man

Major
Registered Member
The old Los Angeles class does not require any hump for its VLS (*granted the VLS locations are different). But the front of the LA class probably has less room than behind the sail. I don't think the 093B is much smaller than the Los Angeles class. In fact, the original 093 (at least according to wiki) is comparabe or maybe even a bit bigger than the Los Angeles class. 093B is IIRC longer than the original 093B. So why would it be delusional?

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View attachment 46228
I don't agree that the front of the LA has less room than behind the 093B's sail. Remember that you can only count the non-sloping portion of the hump, because if that hump is a VLS that means the VLS needs the entire height of the hump to contain it (otherwise there wouldn't need to be a hump in the first place). Second, if there is in fact a VLS in that location, you should be able to see the door outlines, which are fairly visible:

img19.jpg

Third, I would like to see evidence that the 093 is larger than the LA class. Please provide an authoritative source for that. And the 093B being "longer" than the original 093 has no bearing on this discussion. The length of the hump is what matters here, not the overall length of the sub itself.
 
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