New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China

NiuBiDaRen

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BYD India today inaugurated its first dealership showroom of passenger vehicles at Ernakulam.

EVM Southcoast will provide consumers in the Kerala market with access to BYD’s pure electric vehicles. With considerable experience in the automobile industry, EVM Southcoast has extensive reach and covers neighbouring regions in the market.

The showroom is equipped with well-trained technicians and complete facilities including service bays, a customer lounge area and EV charging stations, aiming to offer customers the best in-store experience. The showroom covers 2500 square feet and features a relaxing lounge area for customers to enjoy.

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Incoming Indian govt going to accuse BYD of tax fraud and confiscate their cars.

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I think if BYD can invent cow dung biofuel-electric hybrid car, then Indian govt will leave it alone. Or maybe the steering wheel can be like 60% dried cow dung.
 

AndrewS

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if you want to see Tesla demand in China, the Model Y SR wait time continues to come down. Now down to 4 to 8 weeks.
other models are seeing longer wait time. But I would say this is on average probably less than the wait time for BYD models. And, this is despite Tesla exporting most of their Shanghai giga export.

short clip on Li Keqiang visit to BYD

Just look at all the jobs they are creating. Estimated to surpass 900k by end of 2023. The Chinese leadership loves BYD.

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Part of the Tesla wait time reduction in China is presumably due to the increased Tesla Shanghai production rate after the upgrade last month. But it does look like Tesla demand is slacking off in China, which is to be expected.

Also, electric car production and maintenance creates fewer jobs than with ICE vehicles. But there's not much you can do about this. However it does mean China will become an even larger car exporter which will offset some of the job losses in China
 

henrik

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if you want to see Tesla demand in China, the Model Y SR wait time continues to come down. Now down to 4 to 8 weeks.
other models are seeing longer wait time. But I would say this is on average probably less than the wait time for BYD models. And, this is despite Tesla exporting most of their Shanghai giga export.

short clip on Li Keqiang visit to BYD

Just look at all the jobs they are creating. Estimated to surpass 900k by end of 2023. The Chinese leadership loves BYD.

Is BYD taking workers from other car makers, as they take market share from other JV makers?
What is the net job increase in the automobile industry?
 

tygyg1111

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AndrewS

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Is BYD taking workers from other car makers, as they take market share from other JV makers?

I'd say yes to both questions

What is the net job increase in the automobile industry?

I'd say a net job decrease in the Chinese auto production industry.

Making electric cars requires less labour than with ICE cars.

China might see a modest increase in overall car production this year and next
But remember the trend in developed car markets is fewer and fewer car sales in Europe, North America, Japan etc
 

tphuang

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Somewhat of a balanced story on BYD from Bloomberg. They even interviewed Taylor Ogan. I would say they are still just fundamentally unaware of how much BYD has this thing figured out. It's really hard to ramp up production of EVs unless you can get the entire supply chain in order. It's kind of laughable to me that they think Toyota can just rmap it up take over from BYD. They also missed out on why BYD hasn't been as profitable. They think it's because BYD is pricing their cars too low, when in fact it's because they are ramping up faster than any automaker has ever done.
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I took a look at rankings of the top 10 automakers from 2021. Toyota was #1 with 10.5 million and VW was #2 with 8.6 million. BYD will easily enter top 10 in 2023 and in a couple of years, it will be top 5.
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It's been a while, but BYD will finally be distributing those Atto 3s to customers next week. Dolphin and Seal are likely to be rolled out by end of 2022. I'm hoping for some nice youtube clips once that happens. Maybe the Electric Viking will finally get his car.
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This is great, Shell expanding EV charging stations in China. I think a while back, there was a story of BYD/NIO working with Shell to expand EV chargin in Europe. That has to be the way forward.
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This should be obvious to everyone here. Most of Tesla Shanghai production is going to export market.
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Tesla may say that more cars will be available for local market in second half of Q3, but we will have to see. BYD is out selling Tesla almost 5 to 1 in first half of August.

As for employment, I think it's inaccurate to just assume that BYD is taking workers from other car makers. Keep in mind that they have their own construction company, auto parts production, battery company (Fudi), chip making companies and such. Even for the parts they do buy externally, they mostly stick with other Chinese companies. If you've ever seen photos of new BYD construction site, you would get an idea of how many local workers they employ. So, their entire model brings jobs domestically. And the revenue ends up in China and reinvested in China. All this revenue will be fed back to the Chinese economy. They also do this across China. They open bases in all these places that don't traditionally have auto or battery industry. They don't have any factories around Shanghai. All of this raises prosperity in poorer provinces and 2nd/3rd/4th tier cities.

Think about it this way. While FAW/SAIC-VW JVs may still produce most of the cars in China, they source parts from Germany and Europe. All the profits and stock dividends end up in Europe and get re-invested in German economy. With BYD, everything is produced in China. All the revenues stay in China. All the exports are shipped across the world in Chinese shipping companies. All the profits are re-invested in hiring more engineers and building more homes/factories and spent locally.

And of course, all the exports they will have in the future are also bringing money/jobs in. btw, there is no proof that BYD's EV factories necessarily require fewer workers than a legacy ICE factories.
 

AndrewS

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As for employment, I think it's inaccurate to just assume that BYD is taking workers from other car makers. Keep in mind that they have their own construction company, auto parts production, battery company (Fudi), chip making companies and such. Even for the parts they do buy externally, they mostly stick with other Chinese companies. If you've ever seen photos of new BYD construction site, you would get an idea of how many local workers they employ. So, their entire model brings jobs domestically. And the revenue ends up in China and reinvested in China. All this revenue will be fed back to the Chinese economy. They also do this across China. They open bases in all these places that don't traditionally have auto or battery industry. They don't have any factories around Shanghai. All of this raises prosperity in poorer provinces and 2nd/3rd/4th tier cities.

Think about it this way. While FAW/SAIC-VW JVs may still produce most of the cars in China, they source parts from Germany and Europe. All the profits and stock dividends end up in Europe and get re-invested in German economy. With BYD, everything is produced in China. All the revenues stay in China. All the exports are shipped across the world in Chinese shipping companies. All the profits are re-invested in hiring more engineers and building more homes/factories and spent locally.

And of course, all the exports they will have in the future are also bringing money/jobs in. btw, there is no proof that BYD's EV factories necessarily require fewer workers than a legacy ICE factories.

At the same time, the foreign automakers also produce parts in China for export.
And currently, BYD is still at a stage where it barely has any exports, although this will change.

And EV factories do employ fewer workers than legacy ICE factories because:

1. the battery production process is extremely automated.
2. a typical electric vehicle has about 2000 fewer parts than an ICE vehicle. All these extra parts would have required workers to produce and handle.
 

tphuang

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At the same time, the foreign automakers also produce parts in China for export.
And currently, BYD is still at a stage where it barely has any exports, although this will change.

And EV factories do employ fewer workers than legacy ICE factories because:

1. the battery production process is extremely automated.
2. a typical electric vehicle has about 2000 fewer parts than an ICE vehicle. All these extra parts would have required workers to produce and handle.

So this is all based on your assumption of byd automation vs ice factory automation. We don't have any data on their automation, but we do know they have 500k employees and that is enough to produce 2 million cars a year. We know that ford employed a little under 200k employees and sells around 6 million cars a year. Now of course, byd produces everything in the car and also employs people to build it's factories. But it would be pretty hard to argue that byd is more automated than legacy automakers based on this data point.

In fact, if byd becomes the largest automaker, it would employe several million people. That would make byd the largest private employer in the world. The current largest private employer is cnpc at 1.24 million employees.
 
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