Fourth Taiwan Strait Crisis

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Abominable

Major
Registered Member
How the hell are you going to guarantee that Pelosi's visit isn't going to be hyped up, broadcast widely for maximum impact that would have no way not affected China, the Chinese government, most of all the Chinese people that has been told time and time again that Taiwan is inalienable part of China. Do you assume that such a visit would not make much of attention or splash? If China were to treat such visit as a nothing burger then such action or inaction would actually invite a more provocative visits from just about anyone noting that China's reaction has a precedent and according to the Taiwans relations Act, the U.S. will not have any official relations with Taiwan and that includes all high ranking current officials to which Pelos ranked way up high as the 2nd in line to the Presidency.
I can't guarantee that, but it still doesn't justify putting out a story that you will shoot her down and then not doing it.

It whipped up a lot of nationalistic hype (including on here) only for the west to call China a paper tiger.
As for your proposal as a response, I agree in principle but that shouldn't be applied in this context, that should be used as the next move as means to ratchet up (escalatory response) to slowly squeeze the living daylights of Taiwan whilst showing that in terms of what truly matters (economic prosperity ) China holds the ultimate power and lever of Taiwan and not U.S. or Senpai Japan.
I think now is a good time as America is dealing with a lot as it is. As soon as a blockade is imposed the first thing Tsai will do is call America for support. The American response will be there's not much we can do, even economic sanctions are going to be limited because of inflation and what's happening with Russia. It looks like Israel is starting up as well, so Americans need to keep the middle east happy.

It would suit everyone to negotiate Taiwan's status. Strip away their ability to have a military and foreign relations and the Taiwan issue is pretty much solved.

There may be a better time in the future but who knows.
 

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
The current development reminds me a lot about the Beiping Model and the Tianjin model during 解放战争 (I dislike the term Chinese Civil War for various reasons). Now I actually think armed reunification is actually not that necessary and we may actually see peaceful reunification in the next 5 - 10 years, in line with what Xi and many CPC higher-ups have been suggesting in the past many years. It seems like this has always been the plan, things have just become obvious to us lay-folks after the Pelosi event - I was a firm believer of AR prior to this, but now I think a peaceful reunification is a much more powerful game plan with profound impacts to the balance of power in West Pacific.

I'll explain my rationale, starting with a bit of history:

In the 3rd phase of 解放战争, PingJin campaign(平津战役), PLA's goal is to liberate Beiping (Beijing's previous name during ROC peroid) and the costal city of Tianjin. Beiping was a tricky matter as its liberation has high political significance as it's been the capital for a few dynasties in China (duh - which is why it's the current Chinese capital) and there are a lot of historical sites that needed to be preserved. Mao did not want to forcefully take the city, although he could. KMT's commander in Beiping thought he could hold off the PLA for some time and use that as leverage for subsequent negotiations, and the KMT defender of Tianjin was a trusted subordinate of his, and Tianjin was especially heavily fortified and defended by the KMT troops.

Long story short, PLA surrounded Beiping and negotiated with Fu (KMT commander defending Beiping) and Fu would not surrender believing he still has a chance to play this out. In the mean time, PLA attacked Tianjin after a few rounds of negotiations and steamrolled the KMT defendants, and captured the KMT commander alive within 29 hours of fighting and eliminated 130,000 KMT defenders. So the Tianjin model summarized in a few words would be giving you a heads up then properly f**king your s**t up.

Having seen his most trusted subordinate properly f**ked in Tianjin, Fu essentially gave up and surrendered, and agreed to laid down arms and let PLA in under immense psychological and military pressure from the PLA and CPC spies. Mao was able to take Beiping without firing a single bullet. That is the Beiping model - a classic example of 不战而屈人之兵 (a force that can defeat opponents without fighting) described in the Art of War.

I believe a combination of Tianjin and Beiping model has always been the plan for Taiwan. Although AR would seem satisfying to a lot of people and will showcase the capability of the PLA to the world, it is not the most ideal solution.

Remember - 主不可以怒而兴师,将不可以愠而致战。合于利而动,不合于利而止 (lords and generals shall not wage war due to anger/rage, only strike when there is tangible benefit, make no move if there is nothing to be gained) - CPC's ultimate goal is the great rejuvenation of the Chinese civilization, and a key pillar in this goal is to undermine US dominance in West Pacific. Reunify Taiwan under the most ideal situation contributes to this goal; AR can put up a good show, but it is not the most ideal solution and has significant risks and drawbacks - you can never fully control the fallout of a war, wars can have direct and indirect impact on nations' fates for many decades and you will never know if it ultimately serves your purpose or not. (Think about how the Vietnam War contributed to the onset of hippies and civil rights movement, then the woke culture, and subsequently the current trans-movement. A US general in the 1960s would not have imagined that the decisions to send Marines to South Vietnam may mean that a non-insignificant portion of the US armed forces in the 2030s may be made up of transgendered people... Although this example is a bit exaggerated lol but you get my point)

Now how would peaceful reunification be achieved? By combining both Beiping and Tianjin model: immense military, economic, and psychological pressure, Taiwan may actually cave in and give up in a few years when its people can no loner bear the suffering. If the type of exercise we are witnessing these couple of days from the PLA becomes routine, and happens like 2 - 3 times a year for the next couple of years, how would that impact Taiwan's economy? If Taiwan's infrastructures are constantly under cyber-attack (apparently Taiwan's police system has been attacked and it is not currently functional), normal people will feel that (I really felt it when Rogers went down for a full day a little bit ago in Canada). What if every couple of weeks a few PLA drones fly over Taiwan in the middle of the night over populated cities and make huge noises, do they shoot them down or not? What if every couple of months PLA started mass assembling and pretend to launch a AR which forces all Taiwanese people to have to go hide in shelters? There are literally so many military options to make everyone in Taiwan suffer more and more each day, and it can just get worse by each day.

And we are not even counting the economic front. Decades of 惠台 (benefit-Taiwan) policies from CPC is such a screwed-up and brilliant move, regardless of their original intensions, the fact of the matter is that these policies made so much of Taiwan's economy to be dependent on the mainland. If you simply take these policies away, Taiwan would suffer, and we are not even talking about actual sanctions. I'm not going to list all the possibilities but you can imagine (TSMC and the semi-conductor industry alone cannot feed all Taiwanese).

In an extreme scenario, maybe in 5 years, your normal Taiwanese can experience what it is like right to live in Russia in 1991. After all, no business and capital would want to stay on a tiny island that is at risk of suffering armed conflict and they would gradually pull out, all the rich Taiwanese as well - which is not the majority of the Taiwanese. What would be left?

Look at Sri Lanka, I'm pretty sure it was one of the richest nations in South Asia by per capital GDP a few years ago, but Covid and the war in Ukraine has completely changed the fate of this nation. We don't know how much suffering CPC can bring to Taiwan through military and economic pressure, but I don't think it can be taken lightly. By then, if Taiwan just agrees to reunify with China, then this could all disappear, do you think the Taiwanese people would want that? No one can be 100% sure, a lot of things can change really quickly in the span of a few years (e.g., think about PLAN in 2011 vs 2021, or US - China relationships 2017 vs 2022) but let's just say that even if by then Taiwan still does not want to peacefully reunify with the mainland, these kind of things can make AR so much more easier than today.

I think the US has really left itself in a very awkward position. With Pelosi's visit there is literally not much else they could do to about the Taiwan card other than declaring Taiwan's independence formally or station troops directly on Taiwan. I don't think they want to do those things. But Pelosi's visit enables CPC to do all of the things I mentioned above, and the US can't really do much about it unless they directly intervene militarily. The US military may intervene during a scenario of AR, but the likelihood of them intervening militarily when the CPC and PLA are doing the things I mentioned above is really slim. I don't think the US has any more cards to play after this, from now on, it is the CPC that will be making future moves and the US can only follow when it comes to Taiwan.

I kind of feel like this is CPC's plan for a while now, contingencies have been set up to initiate the a certain process on Taiwan, and they're just waiting for US to make its move - by crossing the "red line" for domestic political purposes, China will exploit this opportunity and kickstart the planned contingency. WJP's recent article suggested this as well.

So yeah, that's basically some of the things I thought about in the past 2 days. I guess that is my prediction lol - peaceful reunification is possible within the next 5 - 10 years, but by then yall probably would no longer care about Taiwan as it is no longer that relevant

Do you agree? Disagree? Any thoughts?
Thank you for this excellent post. I agree with your post 100%. China is going to maximize self-benefit (grow grow grow into 2nd Superpower, high-GDP per capita, modernized/developed/industrialized) so minimize casualties (if possible, though not always guaranteed) by cultivating economic and political dominance over Taiwan to "make it [relatively] easier" for AR (though in absolute terms, still going to be tough nut regardless).

With the exception of crossing redlines (nukes on Taiwan, independence, US troops/bases), I honestly think China should wait until when Iran vs. Saudi/Israel/US, Russia vs. NATO/US, two Koreas duking it out, then launch at Taiwan. There is no point to be like Russia and get world's attention on you. Just wait for the timing when the world is already going to shit, even if that takes a few hundred years. With that said, I think China getting to at minimum $30K GDP per capita is paramount, because that is 1.4 Billion people's lives need economic development and improvement, and derailing this too early is not wise.
 

horse

Major
Registered Member
We are all on the same page here, arent we?

Completely not.

Just answer one question for yourself, and you shall see why the Americans are clueless with their China strategy.

After this supposed war between China and America, what happens next?

The obvious answer is the war eventually ends, and they go back to playing the same games, where China makes deals along the BRI and China improves its own technological base.

What the United States wants to do, that does involve or impact China internationally, and what the United States wants to do internally, China is definitely not interested one bit.
 

W20

Junior Member
Registered Member
So we can probably know with good confidence intervals the size of the ROC ship shadowing the 052C and we should probably be able to find out how big that tower of the power plant is - is there a inference to be made as to how far away from shores that 052C was?

Good question.

As far as I know there are about three ways to calculate the distance by eye: (1) with the thumb and arm extended and closing and opening one eye (using the eyes as a rangefinder (this is a very nice method)) (2) using the edge of a coin and (3) determining the horizon.

Unfortunately in this case I can only think of the third one. If the photograph is taken from 11 meters high and assuming (which is a lot to assume) that the coast is visible, then about 11.8 thousand meters away.

Screenshot_2022-08-05-22-22-38-62.jpg
 

daifo

Captain
Registered Member
So we can probably know with good confidence intervals the size of the ROC ship shadowing the 052C and we should probably be able to find out how big that tower of the power plant is - is there a inference to be made as to how far away from shores that 052C was?

There will be lens distortion that "makes object appear bigger/closer" than they are in reality
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member

Well, it certainly seems the grapevine didn't lie to me about this being larger scale, nor about the "less flashy" caveat haha. This is a genuinely impressive concentration of airpower, and I really hope to see footage of airops from today. To put it in perspective, the only other nation that could operate at these kinds of scales is the US. More sorties may have been flown in these hours by the PLAAF and PLANAF than are flown on most days over Ukraine. (Second part of the post took a while researching, so sorry if someone has posted it already by the time I put this up)

I'm not sure if they'll release the details of it, but I'm more interested in whether they mean all of those aircraft were simultaneously in the air at once at a specific moment, or if that is the total number of aircraft that had conducted sorties in the area in the entire 24 hr full day period. One is of course much more impressive than another.

I'm also very much more interested in what PLA air activities and sorties being undertaken within Chinese airspace. These sorties out into the strait are of course useful for both signaling and exercises, but exercises within Chinese airspace are likely to be just as militarily significant and useful. It goes without saying that such information is unlikely to be presented to us though.
 
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